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WWE Womens Division.

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Fletch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 11:00
With the women’s revolution in full swing it’s had me thinking would WWE be better served having one division for the ladies rather than two brands?

They could unify the titles and allow the women to work both Raw and Smackdown, this would make for less repetitive matches and more fresh scenarios, plus it would just give the division a bit more status.

For me there is not really enough depth to run two divisions successfully. I would like a merger to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 12:39
Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

With the women’s revolution in full swing it’s had me thinking would WWE be better served having one division for the ladies rather than two brands?

They could unify the titles and allow the women to work both Raw and Smackdown, this would make for less repetitive matches and more fresh scenarios, plus it would just give the division a bit more status.

For me there is not really enough depth to run two divisions successfully. I would like a merger to happen.

One brand for the women means one women's segment a week instead of two minimum.

One title for both brands means that both segments are going to feature some combination of Sasha Banks, Alexa Bliss and Charlotte week in and week out.

There's plenty of depth to run two divisions. Consider Elimination Chamber last year, where three feuds were running with the women at the same time, all for different reasons, with only seven women total on the roster.

The problem with the women's division isn't lack of talent, it's lack of exposure. Because they only have a small number of recognisable stars (though still the biggest number in history) they don't want to push people who don't have that drawing power. They don't want to expose an inferior product, essentially. It has to be the best that they can offer.

Both divisions will be in double figures once we reach the next shake up. NXT is running over with female talent. There's too much for two brands, not too little.
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Rico Len View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 14:26
The women are pushing harder and harder for tag titles and an "intercontinental level" belt. There is not enough for that.

I think they are fine maybe how they are going now, but would benefit by getting their own WWE Network show. Unlike 205 Live! I know I would tune in to see that. I've yet to see a full episode of 205 Live. And between all the tournaments WWE has hosted for the network I enjoyed the women's the most.

If they went the route of hosting 2 tournaments with new and current WWE stars for both titles as the kickoff of a new 1 hour show, I would definitely want to see all that.

The problem however is that WWE hasn't shown the cruiserweight division can survive the inclusion of their own show and Monday Night Raw appearances. Their appearances on raw are terrible, and if that happened to the women it would be a big step backwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LennyComa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 15:17
If WWE want to expand the womens division to include Women belts they would have to pretty much take all of the best talent from Shimmer, Ice Ribbon, EVE and Shine. They would then have more than enough to support a tag division and a second Title
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 16:10
On current numbers there is not enough depth in either brand roster to introduce any more women’s titles, for tag belts and any mid-level titles to exist there would need to be a merger of the two rosters or a separate Network show for the women.

Each roster currently has around ten ladies each at best, they could probably bump that a little with some NXT graduations but I still don’t think it would be enough. One title per brand is enough. TNA introduced women’s tag belts when they had barely any women on the roster and unsurprisingly it was a complete failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 16:34
The women aren't pushing for it, they're just not disagreeing with all of the fans who are pushing for it. There's a difference. There are plenty of male wrestlers who genuinely want the US or IC titles because of the prestige of it. Who wants their favourite to have the secondary women's title? It's a demotion to a level that doesn't even exist yet.

Tag titles have potential but you'd need two sets, and WWE struggle to justify two sets even in their men's divisions.

I've spoken before about the likelihood of a network show for the women; I've had a Twitter poll up on it for about a day and a half now. That's still an idea that they're playing with and I find it the most likely plan for the future. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 18:35
Quote The women aren't pushing for it, they're just not disagreeing with all of the fans who are pushing for it. There's a difference.

The Bellas have gone on record multiple times saying they specifically want the tag belts.

Sasha has gone on record saying she wants the tag and intercontinental level belts.

Bayley has gone on record saying she wants the tag belts.

Lita has gone on record saying the division should have tag belts.

Paige has gone on record saying she wants tag belts and a mid level belt.

If that's not pushing for it, then AJ Lee wasn't pushing for a women's revolution on Twitter. Nor were the Bellas, nor was Natty.

Quote Who wants their favourite to have the secondary women's title? It's a demotion to a level that doesn't even exist yet.

There already IS a secondary women's title. It's called the Smackdown Women's Championship. The B title from the B-Show. Created specifically for Smackdown because the pre-existing Women's Championship wasn't leaving Raw.

If you want to split things by Raw/Smackdown brands, then give the women's championship to Raw, and the mid-level belt & and tag belts both to smackdown. It wouldn't be too much different than what we see today. Only now WWE would be acknowledging what we already know, that the smackdown women's championship isn't as meaningful as the Raw title that has the history going back decades.

Even better, have the Raw & Smackdown women's champions get into a feud as to which title is more meaningful and build the feud towards a match where the winner's title is renamed to be the Unified Women's Championship, and the loser's title is renamed to *insert creative name here* Championship. That way you get the fans feeling like the Smackdown women's championship got screwed and arguing that it's still more prestigious than the Raw women's championship. And when it gets treated like the main singles title on Smackdown then so much the better. That's practically win/win.

Quote Tag titles have potential but you'd need two sets, and WWE struggle to justify two sets even in their men's divisions.

Hence the reason for needing their own show, to unify the divisions on the network. Even if the women stay on either Raw or Smackdown they can compete against each other on their own show. These women can still be Raw or Smackdown exclusive talent for TV, but ONLY on the WWE network you get to see them mix. It's a sales pitch for the network at the same time.

Moreover after call-ups, if NXT's women's roster gets decimated the same way it did during the brand extension draft, the main roster women's division could be a whole lot bigger. If you leave 2 top women down in NXT with a bunch of noobs so that there's only Ember Moon, Candice LeRae, Nooph, and the newest signings yet to debut, and the move the rest to the main roster, then you can add in Shayna Baszler, Kairi Sane, Lacey Evans, Bianca Belair, and Nikki Cross who can if needed still compete in NXT for a short time like so many other women who debut on the main roster before fully transitioning away from NXT especially since it's very possible this show gets filmed in the NXT arena.

And it's not just those women I named that could get called up, but Peyton Royce & Billie Kay would be the perfect inaugural Women's Tag Team Champions. Put together Liv Morgan and Sara Logan, Mandy Rose & Sonja Deville, Nia Jax & Tamina Snuka, as well as some supplemental teams that are only temporary like say Bayley & Sasha (who can be ear marked for a split and feud) and a part-time team like the Bella twins, and you've got a small but viable division to build upon. One that is currently bigger than Raw's tag division, which is currently The Bar, and ... hmmm... Do Seth Rollins & Jason Jordan ACTUALLY count??? I don't think they do. I don't even know who else is in the Raw tag division. Hell, I don't even know that Smackdown has 6 tag teams in it.

Quote I've spoken before about the likelihood of a network show for the women; I've had a Twitter poll up on it for about a day and a half now. That's still an idea that they're playing with and I find it the most likely plan for the future.

So there it is. If they do get their own show. They don't need to unify the divisions on Raw or Smackdown, they can keep them in place, but have them all perform together on their own network exclusive show. 

That said, I can't say it would be good. I still have the misgivings about how the Cruiserweight division is being treated, and I definitely think the women's division shouldn't take that kind of a step back. But it COULD be good, too. Just like my argument with the Royal Rumble when people said there wasn't enough talent to be able to have 30 women, and I said that they did. They COULD do this kind of show, they could add the mid-card title and the tag titles, and they could even keep the brand extension intact.

None of that means they SHOULD. That's whole different discussion than the point I'm arguing. I'm only arguing that they could and it would work on paper, how it could work week in week out for months and years on end is a complete unknown to me.



Edited by Rico Len - 08/February/2018 at 18:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 19:55
AJ Lee wasn't asked a question by someone about whether or not she felt women were being paid fairly compared to men in WWE. She came out and said it of her own volition. Are all of the other people you named equally as forthright or were they asked a question during a media interview and responded with public opinion?

Smackdown is not a secondary title. The Raw women's championship isn't even the same as the Divas championship; they changed the name so that they could escape all of that unwanted Divas history and they'll fight to the death with anyone who tries to argue that. Titles fluctuate in importance anyway. For example, during the time of Mahal, the WWE championship would have been secondary to the Universal in all except for history using your system there. Titles are given importance by the names attached to them and the names attached to them historically. Charlotte Flair is a bigger name than Alexa Bliss and Bliss having not defended or even been on the show so often really puts the red brand at a disadvantage in comparison recently. The blue brand also won in that match at Survivor Series to help establish parity. It's not an inferior title. 

I think I mentioned on my first day here about the concept of a women's only show. It's something I personally support. If they did that then I could definitely see tag titles happening and maybe, two or three years from now, a secondary title. Can't see it right now though. The failings of 205 Live are on the shoulders of anything they want to try afterwards. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 20:15
Quote Are all of the other people you named equally as forthright or were they asked a question during a media interview and responded with public opinion?

Maybe not all of them, but close. The Bellas have been talking about it since 2012 quite openly because obviously they want to be a tag team together, and I'd have to go back and do my homework because I admittedly don't know 100% that they weren't asked, but I strongly suspect they volunteered at least the very first time if not most times since. 

Sasha and Bayley both volunteered the information when they were on the episode of The Steve Austin show that was published a few weeks back.

Lita I think was prompted.

The others I don't know one way or the other. 

Quote Smackdown is not a secondary title.
Sure it is, for this very reason:

Quote The Raw women's championship isn't even the same as the Divas championship; they changed the name so that they could escape all of that unwanted Divas history and they'll fight to the death with anyone who tries to argue that.

When you look in the history books the Raw Women's Championship, previously the Women's Championship, previously the Diva's Championship, previously the WWE Women's Championship, previously the WWF Women's Champion, etc. goes clear back to Fabulous Moolah in the record books. That title is not the secondary title.

Despite how much WWE wants to argue the point there is no such thing as a co-main. The last event on the PPV is the main event, the event that came on before is not a co-main. The Big Gold Belt was not the most prestigious title in the WWE, the WWE Championship is and the same holds true for the Raw Women's Championship as compared to the Smackdown title. WWE can argue till they're blue in the face, but nothing will change the fact that when it comes down to a decision of which one stays and which one goes the one with all the history in the WWE is the one that stays and the other goes. That means it's less important by WWE's own admission. You simply can not argue that. The very best you can say is that Smackdown women's title is title 1b but Raw's is 1a.

Regardless, we're arguing semantics here. There's 2 singles championship titles in the division as we speak. 1 of them is more important than the other. This is the perfect setting for establishing the prestige of the so-called 'mid-card title' you're arguing no one would want to see challenge for.

Quote For example, during the time of Mahal, the WWE championship would have been secondary to the Universal in all except for history using your system there. Titles are given importance by the names attached to them and the names attached to them historically.


I established no system in my previous post, you just inferred one. I agree with you, the system is that the title with the history is the one with the importance. Smackdown's title has no history beyond a year and a half ago. The Universal Belt is just this generation's Big Gold Belt to the WWE Championship. That's why Jinder's run was such a travesty of the belt.


Edited by Rico Len - 08/February/2018 at 20:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/February/2018 at 20:26
The Divas title is not formerly the WWE Women's title. Those two titles ran concurrently and it was the women's title that was retired. It's not the same title. 
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