TUP Wrestling Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Sport > Football
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - WWE RAW Thread
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

WWE RAW Thread

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 649650651652>
Author
Message
 Rating: Topic Rating: 2 Votes, Average 3.00  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
MUSA View Drop Down
Heat/Velocity
Heat/Velocity
Avatar

Joined: 06/January/2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 415
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MUSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/November/2017 at 16:31
Originally posted by Baz Baz wrote:

They woke up for Bayley, Dunne and New Day. Horrid crowd...can't imagine how silent it'll be for SD unless AJ wins of course.

Horrid crowd?  I'd argue it's a horrid product and the crowd is just reacting to the product in front of them.  The show wasn't anything spectacular.  They continue running this "cookie cutter" program, where they just change out the people.  Same backstage segments.  Same "beatdown" or "brawl" segments.  Same "we want to be indy-like" matches.  Nothing about WWE is unique anymore.  The UK fans are spoiled by the likes of ICW, Progress and WCPW - all of these 3 feds have something unique about them that keeps fans drawn.  WWE is like a studio apartment in NY.  Yeah, you get to live in a fancy NY neighborhood - but you're living in a place the size of a closet, for the same price as you'd pay for a 5-bedroom house in CT.  WWE is a high-rent apartment with nothing special about it these days.  Christ, they don't even have pyro OR good titantron videos because they want to cut costs...

They are like brand-name clothing -- a name with a shitty product.

Originally posted by ihatethatmonkee ihatethatmonkee wrote:

Dunne's introduction was fucked. someone really messed that up, surely.

crowd popped for his music, then Angle walks out, and you literally could hear the "what the fuck?" reaction, so when he did show, it was muted compared to what it would have been.

have to wonder why that happened. am sure it would have made more sense to have Angle's music hit, and that surely had to be the plan, doing it the way it went made fuck all sense.

Oh, this was horrendous.  The *only* thing I can think of is one of the following....

1. Vince McMahon felt that Pete Dunne wouldn't be known, so Kurt would surely get him over (being out of touch, and all, I don't doubt this assumption)

OR, the less likely...

2. Someone was supposed to cue Angle's music first and THEN Pete Dunne's - this I doubt happened, or someone would've been fired given the "zero tolerance policy" that WWE enforces with their pettiness.

Either way, Pete's debut definitely lost some of that aura with the fucked up intro.  Way to kill a crowd with over-production....


Edited by MUSA - 11/November/2017 at 16:32
• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner
Back to Top
ihatethatmonkee View Drop Down
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Avatar

Joined: 01/October/2009
Location: Birmingham, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8943
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihatethatmonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/November/2017 at 21:05
the problem with that is these fans paid money to see that product. same as in the states, if you're not happy with the product, then don't go.  yes, here, tickets are bought a fair bit in advance, but let's face it, there's more than likely going to be someone out there willing to pay more than face value if you decide to not go.

the more I think of it, the more I do believe it's 2. think about it, unless Dunn was supposed to just come down to the ring and start a match with Enzo, how would anyone really know what was going on? Kurt had a mic, so I suspect this was supposed to have worked in the same way Kalisto was introduced to 205 Live. especially because if Dunn was just supposed to come out and head to the ring, there was plenty of time between his music hitting and Angle coming out for them to have been able to gauge the crowd reaction and call off Angle going out.
Back to Top
MUSA View Drop Down
Heat/Velocity
Heat/Velocity
Avatar

Joined: 06/January/2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 415
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MUSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 04:13
Originally posted by ihatethatmonkee ihatethatmonkee wrote:

the problem with that is these fans paid money to see that product. same as in the states, if you're not happy with the product, then don't go.  yes, here, tickets are bought a fair bit in advance, but let's face it, there's more than likely going to be someone out there willing to pay more than face value if you decide to not go.

I think fans that pay to be there are HOPING WWE will amp it up for them.  Same reason a lot of people still watch the product - they WANT to love the product, and they get abused by it.  It's like being in a toxic relationship for them.  Particularly when WWE goes international, they expect the volume to be turned up to impress.  But WWE is in this state of complacency.  They're saying, "Hey, I'm the biggest show in town.  You should be happy I even came here" and then serves them the same shit sandwich they've been giving to everyone else.

I agree with you, by the way, they SHOULD stop going.  And, honestly, people are.  Attendance is down.  Problem is, the message to WWE isn't being sent.  Why?  Because people continue to buy their products - the WWE Network, DVDs, Shirts, Merch, etc.  So long as the profits are coming in, WWE doesn't sweat the attendance.  WWE is like Disney - their "product" is just a vehicle for their merchandise and services.  And until people open their eyes and see this and stop supporting the company, they'll continue to disappoint and treat fans like financial figures, not like fans.  Sales over service.  I stopped supporting WWE a long time ago (about 4 years now) and only read sites/youtube videos on other's channels to stay in touch - but I'm no longer investing in anything the company produces.  I hope others follow suit to force the company to change.

Originally posted by ihatethatmonkee ihatethatmonkee wrote:

the more I think of it, the more I do believe it's 2. think about it, unless Dunn was supposed to just come down to the ring and start a match with Enzo, how would anyone really know what was going on? Kurt had a mic, so I suspect this was supposed to have worked in the same way Kalisto was introduced to 205 Live. especially because if Dunn was just supposed to come out and head to the ring, there was plenty of time between his music hitting and Angle coming out for them to have been able to gauge the crowd reaction and call off Angle going out.

Angle did seem a bit "off" when he came out.  I think Angle's music may have been the music that was supposed to go off.  Still, even if that was the error.  Angle's announcement of the "Cruiserweight vs. brusierweight" was so god damned corny and unnecessary.  It would've been better to just have Dunne come out on his own, get a massive pop, cut a brief 30 second promo to challenge Enzo - have Enzo look like he'll leave (acting like he doesn't even know who Dunne is).  Then have Angle come out to force the match.  Once Dunne wins, Angle then announces to a fallen Enzo that 205 Live is going to be joined by the UK division - so Enzo better get used to wrestlers like Dunne.

BAM!  Dunne gets over on his own, you've sold the story of Enzo's show being taken over, and Angle does what an authority figure should do - make matches and decisions.


Edited by MUSA - 12/November/2017 at 04:14
• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner
Back to Top
ihatethatmonkee View Drop Down
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Avatar

Joined: 01/October/2009
Location: Birmingham, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8943
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihatethatmonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 15:38
the thing is, WWE did amp it up this year. we had a tag team title change. and a WWE Championship title change, it seems the only time the crowd showed any real displeasure over the two shows was when Shane announced that Bryan would be back on SDL next week, and the fans booed as they wanted him there this week, which in itself is quite selfish if these are smart fans who should know that he has a young child now, and isn't really needed on the road as he's an authority figure, not an active wrestler.

Raw, for me, got a lot more right than SDL did. it again seems weird to announce your participants on Twitter and not on the shows, especially when they are there. SDL had been doing alright in that department until Cena, and weirdly, it was Angle announcing Strowman as his first pick on Twitter when you could have had literally 20 seconds at the end of that show of Angle in the office saying Strowman was on Team Raw that annoyed me. 
Back to Top
Fletch View Drop Down
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Avatar
TUP Hall Of Fame 2009

Joined: 06/January/2006
Location: Portsmouth UK
Status: Offline
Points: 16044
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 17:19
In fairness the product hasn’t been that bad, we’ve seen the reunion of The Shield, a couple of surprise title changes which included AJ dragging a very good match out of Mahal. I’ve enjoyed the cross-brand rivalry which is building to what looks a very good card at Survivor Series. Enzo Amore has actually made the Cruiserweight division interesting. Pete Dunn’s appearance was a nice touch despite the production melt down with his entrance. I’ve enjoyed the emergence of Braun Strowman and his monster vs monster feud with Kane has my attention. Kevin Owens is on fire as a top heel and Sami Zayn is actually relevant. The Usos have emerged as one of the top tag-teams in the company and New Day are doing their best work in some time.

So in amongst all that there is some stuff which is truly abysmal but there is also plenty of the product that is worth watching at the moment.

As people have already said if you’re that displeased with what WWE are putting out stop watching, stop buying tickets and stop subscribing to the Network and buying merchandise. Otherwise just stop complaining.

Edited by Fletch - 12/November/2017 at 17:21
Back to Top
#Heel View Drop Down
Unprettier God
Unprettier God
Avatar
Winner of TW VII & Co-Winner of TW VIII

Joined: 03/January/2012
Location: Newcastle, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9466
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote #Heel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 18:12
Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:



So in amongst all that there is some stuff which is truly abysmal but there is also plenty of the product that is worth watching at the moment.

As people have already said if you’re that displeased with what WWE are putting out stop watching, stop buying tickets and stop subscribing to the Network and buying merchandise. Otherwise just stop complaining.

I agree with the above

There will be always something to complain about (for me at the min it is the dip in quality we have seen on SD over the past few months) but the product hasnt been too bad as of late as a whole.

Survivor series looks like it could be one of the best PPV's in a long time

The thing i keep forgetting (and im sure most fans do too) is that the product now has a far bigger audience to cater for so whilst most of us die hard wrestling fans want to see 5 star matches and attitude era type promos - a huge part of the fan base is now the younger viewer so the product needs to be toned down to appeal to them too
Back to Top
MUSA View Drop Down
Heat/Velocity
Heat/Velocity
Avatar

Joined: 06/January/2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 415
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MUSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 18:56
I'm unsure if the "stop complaining" was aimed at me - but if it was, I'll just say - "no, I won't".  Why would I?  I want the company to be something better and it isn't.  A silent crowd proves that what they are doing isn't eliciting the reactions they crave. 

I guess we just like different things, Fletch, and that's fine.  

Personally, I want something unique in the product like it used to have.  WWE of old didn't have molds they fit people in and template segments they just put different people in.  They were creative and fun.  It wasn't just a show of backstage interviews, brawls, and matches - that's boring.  It was a mix of new things.  

Hey, let's shoot a segment in a bar.  Hey, let's put a funny skit together in a random supermarket.  Let's take it to the hotel room.  That kind of love and passion behind creativity is lost in WWE these days.  Hell, even if the WWF golden era - Undertaker segments were WAY different than a Shawn Michaels segment.  Mr. Perfect vignettes were WAY different than Ted DiBiases.  I miss those types of creative outlets.

Case in point - the only time I watched a full segment in WWE lately was when a friend of mine forwarded me the Heath Slater/Rhyno segment in his trailer.  That was AWESOME.  That's thinking out of the box and doing something different.  It genuinely made me love that team (and I never even saw a match of theres).

RAW today is simply this (I'm basing this off of Amit Rana's clip series), this is my own opinion...
1. Backstage interview with Wrestler (cookie cutter, someone asks questions, answers them, done)
2. Cheap plugs by announcers - twitter, twitter, twitter
3. Long match with no build - good match, but no emotional investment (like the early ROH days that were 'meh' at best)
4. Backstage interview, again, with someone.  Oh look, a brawl!  This is only the 3rd or 4th in a month!
5. A McMahon comes out and rips the balls off of someone - knowing that a McMahon will never get their just desserts, everyone just bites the pillow and takes it...
6. Another match with no build, where the winner is obvious
7. Backstage shot of someone awkwardly positioned watching a TV monitor.
8. Two wrestlers talk backstage again, awkwardly facing the camera (do people talk in 45 degree angles to each other?) - also, wrestler is a monster who you wouldn't see just talking to someone (see: Kane/Miz).
9. Good match...that has been seen 20 times already, but hey, they are wearing different outfits now so that's new!

Again, I'm one of those that doesn't invest in the company any longer because their product bores me.  But, please don't sharply demand that I "not complain", I'm allowed to comment on a product that I personally wish was better.  It may differ from your opinions, but I respect yours, please respect mine :)  We can differ on opinions!  That's what makes this forum fun!

It's good to note (all cards on the table) that my personal need for more unique presentation and character development is what makes me a huge fan of Lucha Underground (which I know some don't really like).  Then again, I'm also a huge fan of NJPW (subscribe to NJPW World) and while their presentation is vastly different from WWE, I think what keeps me drawn to them is how they book their roster.  Every match has meaning, and they present it as a "real" sport more than WWE.  Which I really get into.



• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner
Back to Top
ihatethatmonkee View Drop Down
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Avatar

Joined: 01/October/2009
Location: Birmingham, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8943
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihatethatmonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 19:34
I wouldn't say stop complaining, not least because it would be completely hypocritical of me when I do it alllllllll the time. as fans, yes, we do have a right to complain, and to be honest, i'd say that since we have to buy our tickets for Raw and SDL like 4/5 months in advance of the show, as with other tour areas who get more than house show events, we probably have more right to complain as a live crowd than North American crowds.

but the point still stands; if you went to the Raw taping, and you have been dissatisfied with what the product has been putting out since you bought your tickets, there are plenty of other people who will pay way over face value if you decide to sell. I felt Raw had a strong start, it made no sense to me the crowd being so muted.

that the crowd for SDL were so good shows this isn't an apathy of the whole product.

but if it were, it still stands that the only way for the fans to get across to Vince that they are not happy with the company in this era of shareholders is to boycott the product. lower audiences mean less advertising revenue from Raw and SDL, lower attendance means lower gate sales, as well as lower merch sales, drop in subscriptions means an effect on PPV schedules. the thing is, much the same as Impact seems to have a core fanbase who will religiously watch and defend it. Raw seems to have a good 3/3.5m viewers who will watch Raw regardless, and the majority of those will also attend a Raw, SDL or PPV show in or near their area.

it's not always the fault of a company that the status quo is maintained.
Back to Top
MUSA View Drop Down
Heat/Velocity
Heat/Velocity
Avatar

Joined: 06/January/2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 415
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MUSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 20:16
Originally posted by ihatethatmonkee ihatethatmonkee wrote:

I wouldn't say stop complaining, not least because it would be completely hypocritical of me when I do it alllllllll the time. as fans, yes, we do have a right to complain, and to be honest, i'd say that since we have to buy our tickets for Raw and SDL like 4/5 months in advance of the show, as with other tour areas who get more than house show events, we probably have more right to complain as a live crowd than North American crowds.

but the point still stands; if you went to the Raw taping, and you have been dissatisfied with what the product has been putting out since you bought your tickets, there are plenty of other people who will pay way over face value if you decide to sell. I felt Raw had a strong start, it made no sense to me the crowd being so muted.

that the crowd for SDL were so good shows this isn't an apathy of the whole product.

but if it were, it still stands that the only way for the fans to get across to Vince that they are not happy with the company in this era of shareholders is to boycott the product. lower audiences mean less advertising revenue from Raw and SDL, lower attendance means lower gate sales, as well as lower merch sales, drop in subscriptions means an effect on PPV schedules. the thing is, much the same as Impact seems to have a core fanbase who will religiously watch and defend it. Raw seems to have a good 3/3.5m viewers who will watch Raw regardless, and the majority of those will also attend a Raw, SDL or PPV show in or near their area.

it's not always the fault of a company that the status quo is maintained.

All valid points - and I agree with you.  The only message companies understand is money.  I think some fans tend to think that if they continue to support the company, that the company will listen to them.  Can you blame them?  Our society works in the way lobbyists do.  Companies hire lobbyists to wine and dine politicians to act on their behalf.  So, fans think that if they "wine and dine" WWE and support them, that they have a voice.

WWE is a petty company, they don't listen to fans - they listen to financial metrics.  Sadly, that's what making a company publicly traded does.  Disney has somehow mastered this with mixing financials and fan reactions - but I think that's because they push millions into marketing to make sure that their steps are in line with fan requestions.  WWE doesn't do that.  WWE does very basic marketing - they look at entertainment market trends and tell WWE how to do what's popular to non-wrestling fans.

Anyway, I digress - Yes, I agree with you - but I don't blame some fans for not thinking the way you and I do.  I think, at a younger age, I thought like they did.  That if I support WWE, it gives me a voice.  In reality, WWE doesn't give a shit about fans opinions (my god, they still call fans "internet fans"...EVERY fan is an internet fan, you morons in WWE HQ), they just care if they'll open their wallets.

Hence why they don't care about making the product stale.  The product is just a vehicle for merchandise (see: Transformers, Pokemon, Disney, etc.)  So they cut costs that made them unique -- fireworks, gone, Titantrons, boring (cutting cost of post production by a significant margin), music sucks (lost Jim Johnston for a cheaper alternative), and production of segments is all the same, so they don't have to worry about purchasing equipment to support an off-site segment, which requires more post-production work.

It's a shame that the product is so boring...I really WANT to love it, but after Punk and Daniel Bryan's retirement, it's just so dull that I can't bare to sit through a single segment these days.  

Thank God for Lucha Underground and NJPW these days :)


Edited by MUSA - 12/November/2017 at 20:17
• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner
Back to Top
Rico Len View Drop Down
PB Members
PB Members
Avatar

Joined: 23/October/2012
Location: Yosemite Lakes
Status: Offline
Points: 9343
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/November/2017 at 20:59
Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

In fairness the product hasn’t been that bad, we’ve seen the reunion of The Shield, a couple of surprise title changes which included AJ dragging a very good match out of Mahal. I’ve enjoyed the cross-brand rivalry which is building to what looks a very good card at Survivor Series. Enzo Amore has actually made the Cruiserweight division interesting. Pete Dunn’s appearance was a nice touch despite the production melt down with his entrance. I’ve enjoyed the emergence of Braun Strowman and his monster vs monster feud with Kane has my attention. Kevin Owens is on fire as a top heel and Sami Zayn is actually relevant. The Usos have emerged as one of the top tag-teams in the company and New Day are doing their best work in some time.

So in amongst all that there is some stuff which is truly abysmal but there is also plenty of the product that is worth watching at the moment.

As people have already said if you’re that displeased with what WWE are putting out stop watching, stop buying tickets and stop subscribing to the Network and buying merchandise. Otherwise just stop complaining.
"In fairness the product hasn’t been that bad"

With all due respect, I very much disagree. I don't think it has ever in modern history been worse. The best I can possibly say is that it seems to be trying to get better. TLC was actually good, even though that was mostly by accident thanks to Reigns and Wyatt being taken out.

I do not think the roster is bad, AT ALL. I fucking love this roster, and would say it's up there with the very best WWE has ever had. But the booking is even worse than the mid-90's bullshit, and rivaling that of WCW's 2000-2001.

The stories going on are just abysmal, yet I'll admit that the peak of how bad it's ever been was Bayley vs Bliss with the This is Your Life segment and the whateveritwas on a pole match.

So just as you suggested, I have canceled my subscription, for the first time since the network went live, and as a reward for cancelling, WWE gave me another month free. As I canceled shortly after the start of a new month, I'm still subscribed through December 2nd or some such... and truth be told I will likely renew to see the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania, maybe... at least the Royal Rumble.

Ultimately I don't give them much money anyway. I don't buy their games, I don't go to shows, I don't buy their merchandise, I don't even watch their programming on TV anymore. I browse through segments on Hulu, and that's it.

If I ever heard that they had uploaded Prime Time Wrestling from mid89-1992 I would watch the hell out of that, but I don't even watch their ancillary programming anymore. I used to love shows like the Edge and Christion Show, Swerved, Holy Foley, and others, but I can't even be bothered to watch NXT any more than I do Raw and Smackdown.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 649650651652>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.250 seconds.