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RIP314 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30/August/2013 at 23:25
Originally posted by thundarr2000 thundarr2000 wrote:

Gauging the quality of Japanese wrestling upon the number of wrestlers that have met with widespread success in the US is a poor argument. Yeah, a lot of Japanese guys came to the US up until the late 1990s. They came because they were following the money. But when the whole Monday Night Wars ended, those huge paychecks vanished as well. It became more profitable to stay in Japan. In fact the trend reversed and more North American wrestlers headed to Japan for the good money.

I wish I could say it better, but he's got it.

BTW I think a huge problem is the fact that Vince looks at japanese wrestlers as nothing but gimmick. He sees dragons, samurais and kimonos. I honestly can't think of a single japanese wrestler Vince Jr. ever promoted without making their japanese origins the main focus of their character. Even the great Inoki got saddled with that stupid Martial Arts title, but I think that was Vince Sr on that one.


Edited by RIP314 - 30/August/2013 at 23:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RIP314 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 23:23
Originally posted by HBKDX97 HBKDX97 wrote:

 In Japan, wrestling companies are just as big as ever. 

This was my real point to begin with. Japanese wrestling certainly is not dead! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote thundarr2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 22:54
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Name one jap that came over to the big leagues and was a success. Tajiri was the only popular guy in the last 15 yrs, it's rife with vanilla midgets over there.
Gauging the quality of Japanese wrestling upon the number of wrestlers that have met with widespread success in the US is a poor argument. Yeah, a lot of Japanese guys came to the US up until the late 1990s. They came because they were following the money. But when the whole Monday Night Wars ended, those huge paychecks vanished as well. It became more profitable to stay in Japan. In fact the trend reversed and more North American wrestlers headed to Japan for the good money.

Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

They perform at empty halls which used to hold 50k in their heyday in the 90's. MMA took over there until Pride folded. 

Right now the wrestling scene in Japan isn't that great. But that has nothing to do with the quality of the wrestlers or promotions. Japan is still recovering from the disasters of 2011. Remember the 9.0 earthquake that led to the massive tsunami which in turn triggered the nuclear meltdown? The nuclear plant is still leaking out radiation. Their economy is still shitty as a result of the disasters.

About 3 years ago there was huge scandal regarding Yakuza involvement in fixing sumo tournaments. There's still a lot of gambling involved with sumo. Several of the sumo promoters are also boxing, wrestling and/or MMA promoters as well. So all of the "combat sports" suffered fallout from that scandal. All of them saw ticket sales and TV ratings go down.

Pride FC wasn't the end all be all of Japanese MMA. Despite UFC being largely unwelcome, MMA is still very much alive and active in Japan. Just none of them have big international TV deals. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HBKDX97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 19:38
Originally posted by Rico Len Rico Len wrote:

Meanwhile JTB mentioned that Tajiri was the only guy in the last 15 years. What you list shows that at one time it WAS meaningful. However we are living in the here and now, and right now JTB is right.

Masato Tanaka is far from being a success. You're right however that success is relative. Relative to other Japanese wrestlers like Yoshi Tatsu, Tanaka is... er... well... hmmm. Maybe that was a bad example. On the other hand Yoshi Tatsu and Tanaka are very successful compared to the wrestlers here at TUP. :p

Oi! Uncalled for! 

I agree with JTB only slightly on this one. There haven't been that many Japanese stars that have become mega-famous, and only a slightly larger to become moderately famous (BEYOND the "smart" wrestling audience, whose numbers and influence are severely overestimated these days). 

However, I think it's mostly due to the style difference, rather than any lack of talent on the wrestler's part. That is why Mexican wrestlers are also not that successful, generally, at adapting to the US style. In Japan, wrestling companies are just as big as ever. But it's two different styles, which includes the audience. 

That's why ROH catches so much grief. Their style of wrestling would get them over huge in Japan, and even in Mexico in some cases. But they are pitching it to an audience that doesn't want it and are trying to force feed it where it just isn't going to work. Like headbutting a wall and trying to bring it down rather than just using a sledgehammer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 19:37
Originally posted by Rico Len Rico Len wrote:

I think that's a case of cultural differences and language barriers though. I would imagine that if some Japanese guy were able to speak fluent English (or engrish even) then within just a short amount of time he could get over. /shrug maybe not, but I DO think it's more about not having mic skills than mat skills or presence.




Thats partially to do with it, the western world audience can't differentiate between one guy and another because (as racist as it sounds) they all sound the same and look the same. A guy could be cutting the most emotionally charged promo since Punk on the ramp yet we'd think he was singing Gangnam Style.

It's not just about mic skills tho, none of them have a decent look or gimmick. Morishima was their hottest prospect and WWE didn't want anything to do with him. He was on trial twice and they thought he was slow and looked like a fat lesbian.

This guy needs to wake up and see the jap scene for what it is. It's for American rejects to go and rehab their image by getting a push as the badass foreigner over there. Worked wonders for Albert and D'lo. They arent making any marketable stars so NOAH were so desperate they inadvertedly killed Misawa by dragging his old ass out there and having him carry bums every night.

They perform at empty halls which used to hold 50k in their heyday in the 90's. MMA took over there until Pride folded.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 19:14
Meanwhile JTB mentioned that Tajiri was the only guy in the last 15 years. What you list shows that at one time it WAS meaningful. However we are living in the here and now, and right now JTB is right.

Masato Tanaka is far from being a success. You're right however that success is relative. Relative to other Japanese wrestlers like Yoshi Tatsu, Tanaka is... er... well... hmmm. Maybe that was a bad example. On the other hand Yoshi Tatsu and Tanaka are very successful compared to the wrestlers here at TUP. :p
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RIP314 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 19:09
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Jap wrestling is worthless.

Name one jap that came over to the big leagues and was a success.

HUh? I don't get the question, success is relative, but I'll try to name more than just one.

Jushin Liger
Giant Baba
Masahiro Chono
Ultimo Dragon
The Great Kabuki
The Great Muta
Masato Tanaka...just to name a few

FOR GOD'S SAKE, ANTONIO INOKI was inducted into the WWE Hall Of Fame!

Why don't you do a little research before spouting your ignorance for everyone to read?


Edited by RIP314 - 30/August/2013 at 19:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 17:24
I think that's a case of cultural differences and language barriers though. I would imagine that if some Japanese guy were able to speak fluent English (or engrish even) then within just a short amount of time he could get over. /shrug maybe not, but I DO think it's more about not having mic skills than mat skills or presence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2013 at 15:18
Jap wrestling is worthless.

Name one jap that came over to the big leagues and was a success. Tajiri was the only popular guy in the last 15 yrs, it's rife with vanilla midgets over there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RIP314 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2013 at 23:23
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Theres a reason Jap wrestling companies died out


are you high or something?
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