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Something That Is Lacking in Wrestling Today

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Willy1225 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10/October/2011 at 01:20
After watching the wwe superstars "walkout" on Raw claiming it s an unsafe working enviornment, I couldnt help but Laugh My Fucking Ass Off at this because wwe programming hasnt been this safe in a long time. There is just very little violence in wwe and TNA for that matter. Wrestlers specifically heels just arent percieved as dangerous anymore and because of that most wrestling feuds suck and are uninteresting. Long live the days of heels like this:
 
 
Heel HHH from 1999-2005 was one of the most violent characters we have ever seen. It made the Faces better when they overcame and beat the evil HHH.
 
The reason I think wrestling is in the toilet is because of a lack of dangerous and violent characters specifically heels. You got John Cena laugh off the threats of a different heel every month and then squash them at the ppv. John Cena wouldnt laugh off the threat of Heel HHH because Heel HHH was a killer. A violent badass heel facing off against Cena would be interesting TV especially a heel like HHH was back in the day. That kind of heel is all but extinct nowadays.
 
No one buys The Miz as a threat. Im sorry but he will never be that kind of heel which is fine. Problem is 98% of all heels nowadays are booked exactly like Miz. The only exceptions are Mark Henry and Bully Ray (though they arent as dangerous as heels were back in Ruthless Agression era or the Attitude era) and wouldnt ya know they are seen as the best heels in either fed. Look at wwe in 2000 and just about every major heel that year was one violent motherfucker (outside of goofy nerdy Kurt Angle) Look at this:
 
 
This was Midcard heel Chris Benoit absolutely sadistically destroying a babyface backstage. A savage beatdown that was awesome and it got us to rally behind Jericho as he attempts to get the better on Benoit down the road. Can you see wwe having someone like Rhodes doing that nowadays? 
 
For wrestling to get popular again, they need to bring back violence and violent characters. Now Im not saying go insane ala ECW level of violence on a daily basis cause it will kill the wrestlers but for a story/feud to be intersting, you need violent characters to make things more interesting. Orton had the fans going insane absolutely insane when he savagely beatdown Rhodes a few weeks back as opposed to the usual dead silent crowds wwe seems to have nowadays. Think about how much more effective the "walkout" shit would be if Miz and Truth beat the ever loving shit out of Punk, security and others (with blood) to the point where they need to be carried out via stretcher to end HIAC. Instead of what happened where they hit people with pipes but no one showed long term effects and they got beatdown by HHH to end the show.
 
Violence and violent characters will help bring wrestling back to popularity. This is what TNA needs to do if wwe refuses too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kondor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/October/2011 at 09:56
Excellent post. 

I agree with your premise that violent characters will help in making things more interesting; but it's just the level of violence that they "need" that is in question. In the 70's, 80's and 90's, I had no doubt that guys like "The Russian Bear" Ivan Koloff, Stan The Man Stasiak, Superstar Billy Graham, King Kong Bundy, Big John Studd, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Andre The Giant once he turned, Earthquake, The Iron Sheik, Nikolai Volkoff, Yokozuna, Kane before they destroyed his character, and so on were dangerous. Of course we know both Bundy and Earthquake sent Hulk Hogan away on a stretcher. But they didn't truly go overboard and were sadistic like Triple H. 

I think the true sadistic type of heels, the kind that seemingly get pleasure from inflicting pain on others, are the special cases. Killer Kowalski and his student Triple H are examples of this. Freddie Blassie is another when he was still wrestling before he turned to managing. Jake The Snake Roberts acted like he enjoyed it when he DDT'd Rickey The Dragon Steamboat on the concrete floor. Ditto with The Sheik when he threw fire at people. These people are seen as among the greatest heels ever; and anyone like them is certainly missing from WWE today. But it wasn't necessary for those heels to go as far as they did; and they are the exception rather than the norm. 

Then you had your heels that had their violent acts but it wasn't on a regular basis and they weren't as demented as the above. Incidents like this would be Greg Valentine breaking peoples' legs in the Figure Four Leglock or Vader breaking people's bones and backs. 

But where I disagree with you is that a the kind of heel like Miz will never fly. It's no secret what I think of Miz; he's an average wrestler with a few bright moments and he's awesome on the mic (which I have always given him credit for). I still don't think he should ever have been World Champion. But let's take a look at his general type. He's not ultra violent; but he relies on finesse and what skill he has. Sounds a lot like the heel Shawn Michaels in the 90's to me. Now, obviously Shawn is a light years better wrestler than "The Awesome One"; he could outwrestle Miz in his sleep. But my point is that a heel doesn't have to have violent tendencies to be interesting. Mr. Perfect Curt Henning when he was a heel was the same way. He was entertaining and would always give the faces, or "good guys" a good fight; but he never had those real violent tendencies. Ditto with The Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase, Rick The Model Martel after his heel turn, Jeff Jarrett, and a few other heels from that time.

So violent characters would certainly help, and would certainly make things more interesting. But it is possible to have heel characters and wrestling worth watching without them. 

But I do agree that violence and some down and dirty fights are missing from the sport today. This is one more thing we can blame on the PG rating. Some said it was to attract advertisers; some said it was to make WWE look more presentable for Linda McMahon's Senate campaign. But whatever the reason, the decision to go clean affected the product, no doubt. 

But, we do have a few examples of dangerous heels in recent years. You brought up Mark Henry; but I think an even better example of what you're looking for is Sheamus the way he was presented when he first came in in 2009. Him destroying Jamie Noble is a perfect example. But instances like that are sadly few and far between. 

What today's heels need to do is find a way to look dangerous within the confines of what WWE will allow. Mark Henry is probably the best booked heel in years. What WWE has to do is figure who their other top heels should be, put them on winning streaks that exhibit their strengths (be it wrestling skill, size, or whatever), give them the mic time that they need, and then maintain their pushes and don't have them jobbing a year later!! Then WWE can have a plethora of entertaining heels again. I hope they don't fuck up on Alberto Del Rio. 


Edited by Kondor - 10/October/2011 at 10:01

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willy1225 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2011 at 00:56
Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

But where I disagree with you is that a the kind of heel like Miz will never fly. It's no secret what I think of Miz; he's an average wrestler with a few bright moments and he's awesome on the mic (which I have always given him credit for). I still don't think he should ever have been World Champion. But let's take a look at his general type. He's not ultra violent; but he relies on finesse and what skill he has.
 
Misunderstood me or I didnt write my point as well as I couldve. The heel character Miz has used is fine for him. An annoying loudmouth heel who squeaks by and wins his matches through nefarious ways. Perfectly fine but in wwe they are all heels like Miz and thats the problem. There is just no diversity in heels in wwe.
 
Also they are booking Miz more as a badass with him jumping people with weapons but like I said I just cant buy Miz as the type of heel. He just doesnt have the look or an aura about him that screams a real dangerous threat. Others might which is ok but I just cant.
 
Other than that, an excellent post Kondor as usual that i agree with
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2011 at 19:33
You have to consider their target audience is what, under 10yr olds? They cant exactly go back to the days of Foley grating Triple H's head on razor wire, beacuse theyd be alienating this whole new audience they have.

But yeah, it would be nice to see, but TNA have to do it, and I have no faith in them doing it in moderation, theyd have every single match a CZW-esque bloodbath which would kill the excitement flat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kondor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/October/2011 at 09:16
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

I have no faith in them doing it in moderation,

That's exactly the key...  moderation. Unless it's an ultraviolent character by nature like I described above; they should provide just a dash of violence every now and then to make it more interesting, perhaps with heated feuds. But you're right; they'll either have bloodbaths every night or make it squeaky clean Romper Room. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IDIOTdella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2011 at 17:52
I think what's missing in wrestling today is credible characters, credible storylines and, in the majority, even credible wrestlers - and wrestlers who have the passion to want the best for the business and not just for themselves. I also think the WWE going public back in 2001-2002 damaged the wrestling business beyond repair, because it became nothing but a money making machine and any respect it might have shown its fans before then went out the window.

I also think what's missing is a concentration on the Wrestling part of the wrestling entertainment business. It now seems like it's regarded as wrestling ENTERTAINMENT, therefore wrestling becoming almost like an afterthought instead of it being the foundation of the entertainment side of it all. In other words far too much concentration on the storylines and not nearly enough on how the basis of those stoylines can be shown inside the ring through wrestling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NFaMouZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2011 at 21:18
WWE appear to have this weird mindset that they cant compete with the UFC which I believe is why they went PG. The fact is they dont need to compete with MMA the sports are completely different.
 
Agree with all the comments its not like we need to see someone bleed to death in the ring its more the buildup to the feud that needs the violence not neccessarily the PPV match. The resons for the feuds of today are almost laughable with really the last real hatred feud being WM25 HHH v Orton where the match was a massive let down. how could they expect us to get into the Cena v Del Rio feud at Night of Champions where all that happened between them was "It was my DESTINY!!!!!" "i want my rematch" "OK".
 
Not all feuds need it though one of my favourite feuds ever was Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels in 2005 where there were barely any violence between the two but some need that violence to make the feud look creadible so the fans can actually get behind the face.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/November/2011 at 21:09
Originally posted by NFaMouZ NFaMouZ wrote:

The fact is they dont need to compete with MMA the sports are completely different.


Just because WWE is fake fighting and UFC is real doesnt mean they arent in competition with each other. I'd place a bet that at least 75% of todays MMA fans were/are wrestling fans that got interested in the UFC on the back of Brock Lesnar's crossover.

UFC does pro wrestling better than the WWE, Chael Sonnen is no.1 promo guy, Dana White is a better promoter and the organisation as a whole hypes fights better.

They are competing for the same fans, dont get it twisted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NFaMouZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/November/2011 at 23:58
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Originally posted by NFaMouZ NFaMouZ wrote:

The fact is they dont need to compete with MMA the sports are completely different.


Just because WWE is fake fighting and UFC is real doesnt mean they arent in competition with each other. I'd place a bet that at least 75% of todays MMA fans were/are wrestling fans that got interested in the UFC on the back of Brock Lesnar's crossover.

UFC does pro wrestling better than the WWE, Chael Sonnen is no.1 promo guy, Dana White is a better promoter and the organisation as a whole hypes fights better.

They are competing for the same fans, dont get it twisted.
 
They dont need to compete. Yes many fans of MMA were fans of wrestling in the 90s but there is still huge potential for many like me to watch both. The UFC isnt perfect they do bring up shit cards with they latest being UFC 138 thats the luxury of professional wrestling a good PPV SHOULD (even though it isnt) be guaranteed except for the rare case of injury.
 
I get that UFC has gone to the next level in terms of exposure as opposed to boxing becasue of Dana White but WWE still had competitiion in the 80s/90s/early 2000s with boxing. Yeah UFC is at the new level Sonnen is 10x better at promos then any current active WWE wrestler and Dana White, Joe Silva and Frank Laurenzo are great at hyping fights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CBW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/December/2011 at 22:22
WWE is in direct, DIRECT competition with UFC, and only a fool would say otherwise. The fact that 'there are fans that watch both' isn't even relevant. If you're on TV, you're vying for your spot, regardless. WWE is competing with UFC, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, and everything in-between.

On-topic: violence is fun, but a G period was needed to re-sensitize the audience. In 2006, fans were chanting 'we want fire' in hardcore matches. NOTHING was enough for them. Chair-shots didn't even get a significant reaction. This is NOT a productive working environment. 

So you can see why they did it.


Edited by CBW - 01/December/2011 at 22:44
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