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ROH is dying

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NFaMouZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NFaMouZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2012 at 01:21
The biggest thing that has killed ROH is the talent they have lost. In the past they were an actual alternative promotion showcasing something different but they did it well (I didn't actually watch it though I have gone back and their matches were a high quality. 

But now they have lost all their top guys and the guys they have thrown to the top are just not the same as Bryan, Punk and Aries. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willy1225 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2012 at 01:45
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

In your opinion, what do you think are examples where Sinclair/Cornette hurt their chances of having ROH survive and thrive?
 
First off I despise ROH and ROH fans because of their holier than thou attitude that ROH is amazing and TNA is utter shit and that if ROH got TNA's TV deal they'd be getting awesome ratings and all that shit. Thats why I played the Bender clip and usually do when someone says that about ROH because I just dont see the appeal of that company. As for your questions (I will be civil in my response):
 
The Sinclair problem:
 
They have given ROH TV time which forces ROH to be a TV show as opposed to niche wrestling show and ROH hasnt adjusted to being a TV show. They are still the niche wrestling fed that has turned away any new viewers they could get by being on TV. ROH in its "gimmicky" form IS NOT suitable for TV because it just doesnt appeal to the masses.
 
Throw in utter shit production values straight out of ECW 1995 and its a recipe for NO GROWTH. And if you try to change what ROH is to appeal to the masses, you lose the hardcore ROH fan. They have tried changing the product, it failed. They tried being what ROH has always been and it failed.
 
The Cornette Problem:
 
He is an idiot plain and simple. He doesnt develop and push new stars but keeps on trucking with the "proven" guys on the roster. He believes his own hype and is blinded by it because he screws up everywhere he has been. Rumor is he is being sent home which will do nothing but help ROH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdgeHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2012 at 04:15
Well, that's gonna be interesting to see where does Cornette go from here because he basically burned bridges with every major promotion he worked for.

And I don't feel like having a rebirth of Smokey Mountain Wrestling, thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thundarr2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2012 at 07:24
Originally posted by Willy1225 Willy1225 wrote:

The Sinclair problem:
 
They have given ROH TV time which forces ROH to be a TV show as opposed to niche wrestling show and ROH hasnt adjusted to being a TV show. They are still the niche wrestling fed that has turned away any new viewers they could get by being on TV. ROH in its "gimmicky" form IS NOT suitable for TV because it just doesnt appeal to the masses.
 
Throw in utter shit production values straight out of ECW 1995 and its a recipe for NO GROWTH. And if you try to change what ROH is to appeal to the masses, you lose the hardcore ROH fan. They have tried changing the product, it failed. They tried being what ROH has always been and it failed.
 
As the owners, Sinclair is 100% responsible for ROH just flaying away.
 
SBG gave them a weekly TV spot but then did nothing else. SBG should have brought in modern production equipment... but they didn't. I get the feeling that SBG doesn't want to spend much money and grow ROH as a business. ROH was just a cheap way to acquire new content. SBG clearly isn’t interested in making ROH into anything more than it is: a niche gimmick that appeals to a niche market.
 
SBG has the money to make ROH into a much larger promotion. SBG has the experienced TV personnel to make their show look like top-notch. SBG has the connections to get ROH a syndication deal that would get them on across the USA. SBG brings all that to the table and more… but they don’t lift a finger to make ROH into anything more. They have the money and the power to build ROH up, but they haven’t done it.
 
 
Originally posted by Willy1225 Willy1225 wrote:

The Cornette Problem:
 
He is an idiot plain and simple. He doesnt develop and push new stars but keeps on trucking with the "proven" guys on the roster. He believes his own hype and is blinded by it because he screws up everywhere he has been. Rumor is he is being sent home which will do nothing but help ROH.
 

Cornette isn’t an idiot and he hasn’t screwed up everywhere he’s gone. Last I heard he left TNA on good terms with Dixie Carter as his beef was with Vince Russo & Ed Ferrara. And I would love to see him join TNA at commentary as he could still be a terrific heel announcer.
 
Cornette’s biggest sin in ROH has been his efforts to create a TV show out of the promotion which, of course, was his job as Executive Producer. Other than that, he needs to be reminded that he’s not a teenager that used to hold down 6 or 7 jobs backstage. More likely ROH ownership needs to be reminded of that. After all somebody had to approve (or insist upon) Cornette trying to be an on-camera authority, writer, booker, producer, and PR guy all at once. To be blunt, Cornette is too old now to be trying to fill multiple jobs and should be allowed to be just a producer. 
 

Originally posted by EdgeHead EdgeHead wrote:

And I don't feel like having a rebirth of Smokey Mountain Wrestling, thank you.

There’s already an NWA-affiliate operating in that general area as NWA Smoky Mountain.
 
And despite the original Smoky Mountain Wrestling being “old-timey” it was still the regional promotion that Glenn Jacobs, Chris Candido & Tammy “Sunny” Sytch, the Gangstas, Chris Jericho, Lance Storm and other young talent got the exposure that lead them to be signed to the national promotions. And I know some of those people are also among his biggest detractors, but unlike other promoters Cornette didn't try to keep any of them trapped in SMW when the big companies came calling.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HBKDX97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2012 at 08:39
I'll give credit to Cornette for his announcing and promo skills. No one can deny the genius he had when it came to his delivery and the fire he possessed when he got on the stick.
But he was a VERY inept promoter/ booker/ whatever job title it needs to be called.
Thundarr's mention of all the talent he had are slightly misleading, given the fact that in that day and age many people "had" those guys and gave them exposure in different areas of the game. If Chris Jericho had gone straight to WCW or WWF after his run in SMW with "the Thrillseekers" then the point would be valid, but Jericho had to claw and fight his way through terrible booking in SMW to get noticed by NJPW, where he did well and got noticed by... ECW. Where he got noticed by... WCW to be a boring jobber for a long time before he became an entertaining jobber.
He is legendary for his old-timey approach to running a show that simply doesn't cut the mustard, and didn't cut the mustard in 1995 for that matter. ROH is a shell of it's former self, and the talent there have little to do with the fact that everything has been booked around "let's become a gimmick promotion for the smark fans and everyone throw lots of kicks and cut promos about 'respect'." In my opinion of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2012 at 18:22
I've never liked ROH as hour long chain wrestling matches that end in a time-limit draw after both men kick out of every finishing move known to man is just not my bag, but I do appreciate that back in the day they had some decent talent in the likes of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Nigel McGuinness, Austin Aries, Samoa Joe and AJ Styles. But in there lies the problem, all this talent has defected to either TNA or WWE or even just to the indies because they know that's the only way they will make a living from wrestling.

ROH is a minor league promotion that can't offer the kind of contracts that will keep any decent talent around for the longterm, all the talent I listed and more have left and ROH have not replaced them with anyone of a similar calibre.

Throw in the fact they look small-time, the production values are shockingly bad, the fans are idiot marks who don't understand what wrestling is really all about, the matches lack story-telling and storylines are non-existant.

Edited by Fletch - 29/November/2012 at 18:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thundarr2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2012 at 22:53
Russ, let me clarify. I was in no way attempting to credit Cornette or SMW with breaking Jericho or anyone else. I was trying to address the popular misconception many people (including Willy) have of SMW. There are a lot of people that are convinced that Cornette set up SMW based entirely upon the promoting of older established talent and he somehow keeps the “young guys down.” (Usually they cite this as establishing a pattern of behavior that they then claim he’s continued since.) But that wasn’t the case.
 
SMW was like most of the smaller regional promotions of the early 1980’s. It was a widely varied mix of talent at very different stages of their careers. There were green rookies straight through past-their-peak seasoned veterans. The older guys were less in demand with the bigger companies so they tended to stick around longer while the younger guys gained experience and moved on. But in no way was Cornette afraid of pushing new talent or did he try to hold anyone down. However SMW was in no position to keep any of those younger talents around when the big companies came calling.
 
Since SMW ultimately failed as a company, a lot of the guys that worked there now tend to distance themselves from it, or speak as if they secretly knew along that the company was going to fail (something we see that in regards to WCW as well.) But in 1992-1994, SMW was as hot a regional company you could find. It wasn’t a major national promotion, but just its geographical territory put it close enough for WCW, ECW and WWF to easily scout the talent.
 
It’s easy to criticize the idea of having a really traditional Southern style promotion now. But at that time there was a legitimate fanbase crying out for this exact product. If there hadn’t been any demand for this sort of show it wouldn’t have lasted the 4 years it did. In fact it’s actually amazing that SMW lasted 4 years because the entire wrestling industry was in a massive recession (a period often remembered for the WWF’s numerous sexual harassment lawsuits and their first steroid scandal.)
 
Now that I think more about it, ROH is far more like Dallas-based Global Wrestling Federation. GWF started out a bit rough but they had a lot going for them. They had experienced promoters in back handling the booking, solid money backing them from Atlanta, they had the coveted ESPN timeslot with gave them instant national TV coverage, and they had a roster full of great talent that had been lost in the closures of the AWA and WCCW. Yet despite all they had going for them, GWF became a string of mistakes. Their financial backers bailed on them causing the company to be sold, which led to a lot of backstage turnover. ESPN no longer wanted wrestling so they constantly pre-empted GWF programming. GWF never grabbed that national TV audience anyway because they always appeared to be a small-time Texas-centric niche promotion. And all that great talent was constantly being poached by WWF, WCW, New Japan and others. It's hard to understand how a collection of smart experienced business people could have repeatedly made the wrong choices, but that's what happened with GWF. And I get that same vibe from ROH now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/November/2012 at 17:36
Cornette is just as bitter as Butt Hurt Bret Hart, thank god he's been black listed to the carnival indy feds.
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