Print Page | Close Window

ROH is dying

Printed From: TUP Wrestling Forum
Category: Wrestling
Forum Name: Ring Of Honor
Forum Description: Based out of Pennsylvania and available to watch every Monday night on HDNet. Your place to talk about all the hard hitting action taking place in the number one independent company.
URL: http://www.tupwrestlingforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=17757
Printed Date: 16/December/2019 at 05:40
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: ROH is dying
Posted By: John The Baptist
Subject: ROH is dying
Date Posted: 10/July/2012 at 19:03


Cancelling shows left right and center and only have 6 shows scheduled for the rest of the year.

Originally posted by Mark Madden Mark Madden wrote:

ROH came to Pittsburgh. I didn’t go. Most people didn’t. Attendance was estimated at 500. How that can be rated a success on any level, I’ve got no idea. But they’ll try. It’s nice to know Bruno Sammartino’s audience has finally died out.

ROH did a mini-angle in Pittsburgh involving Arena Football players. Free advice: Don’t mix bush-league genres. It’s like blending rotgut scotch with mud. Bad goes to worse.

Checked out ROH TV again. Crap production aside, it’s good. Episodic. Action-packed. Identifiable storylines. Subtle threads intermingled to make you think. Kevin Kelly excellent on PbP.

ROH has arrived as a legit third promotion. Thing is, you can’t be third. When was the last time a third promotion survived for any length of time? We tend to think ECW was around longer than it actually was because WWE absorbed it as a brand. But the Extreme version of ECW existed from 1994-2001. Not that long.

Not enough trickles down to No. 3. Casual fans and the mainstream media just never find out. No. 3 can fit into a marketable niche, but not a profitable niche. As good as ECW under Paul Heyman was, it went broke. Bankrupt. For a No. 3 promotion, there simply aren’t enough dollars to go around.

The word is that Jim Cornette sees the end coming, and is brooding because of it. Hey, no one knows better what the end looks like. Cornette knows that a small promotion can only exist so long without turning a corner. Then returns quickly diminish. You lose top talent, you get desperate, you compromise. Bad goes to worse. It happened in Smoky Mountain. It would have happened in OVW without WWE (now TNA) backing.

ROH has lost top talent. Right now, there’s little talent worth poaching. ROH does some dumb stuff - like involving local DJs in feuds for house-show purposes; the ‘70s are over! - but nothing crippling. There doesn’t seem to be a relationship with WWE or TNA, so there’s no temptation to bring in wrestlers from those companies to be “the real stars” on selected shows. Cornette damaged Smoky Mountain by going that route.

Right now ROH seems set to slowly peter out. Fade away. Never mind the product. Nothing about the business model suggests ROH is going in the right direction.

Note to ROH fans: I understand how much you love ROH. I appreciate the product, too. It’s relatively pure. It’s wrestling the way you like it. Wrestling the way it used to be. (Now where have I heard that before?) The loyalty of the fans is impressive.

But there just aren’t enough of you.

If/when ROH folds, does it damage Cornette’s legacy? He’s one of the best managers and talkers ever. He’s supposed to be this great wrestling mind. But whenever that great wrestling mind gets in charge of something, it goes belly-up. Cornette has long been stuck in a time warp, though several of his innovations in ROH have served the promotion well, like using graphics to educate fans about wrestlers and rules. That gives ROH more of an MMA/“real sports” feel than most fake wrestling.

Cornette needs ROH, that’s for sure. His behavior has made him totally unemployable by a big company. You can’t slap an employee or beat up a Burger King and expect to work for a major corporation. That’s what WWE & TNA are, major corporations – though Vince and Dixie certainly do their best to compromise that credibility behind the scenes. But owners can do what they want.

It would be a shame to see Cornette disappear into the indy scene, and I mean that sincerely. At this point in his life, he should be booking WWE, not scrambling for $50. But Cornette is one bankruptcy away from that happening.

With ROH in danger – and it is; anytime you draw a “crowd” of 500, your promotion is in danger – it’s time to look back through the annals of ROH and pick the company’s No. 1 wrestler ever.

You can make an argument for Samoa Joe. He was ROH’s longest-reigning champ, and his attitude and style gave ROH a different look, a nastiness, a perverse credibility. Nigel McGuinness and Bryan Danielson (bka Daniel Bryan) each had 38 title defenses. Their in-ring work was impeccable and Danielson, in particular, set a new standard. His reputation has been further burnished by what he’s done in WWE, tough turf for a guy his size. Same thing with CM Punk: His character development carried ROH, and his feud with Joe might be the company’s most memorable. Three words: FIVE-STAR MATCH. I still think Kevin Steen looks like a fan who won a contest, and he’ll never make the big time, but I include him out of respect to current ROH fans.

But my pick for ROH’s top wrestler of all-time is DAVEY RICHARDS. Richards, you see, knows when to get out.

Davey sees the end of days coming, so he’s looking for other work. He’s going to be a fireman, I’m told. Escaping a burning building, escaping a dying promotion/business: both heroic acts. If he’s not ROH’s best wrestler, he’s certainly its smartest.


-------------



Replies:
Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 10/July/2012 at 19:06
Happy Birthday JTB LOL

-------------
Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 10/July/2012 at 19:52
good news day today

-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 10/July/2012 at 20:44
Well they've announced the new tag champions will be decided over a 8 team tournament which is due to start next month, so they may go out with a 8 time tag team champs for the Briscoes.

-------------



Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 10/July/2012 at 21:39
I swear I've read this Madden article before. I think he just replaced TNA with ROH. And added that stupid bit at the end.
 
Why does Madden have so much heat with Jim Cornette?  
 
Originally posted by Mark Madden Mark Madden wrote:


If/when ROH folds, does it damage Cornette’s legacy? He’s one of the best managers and talkers ever. He’s supposed to be this great wrestling mind. But whenever that great wrestling mind gets in charge of something, it goes belly-up.
 
That's actually a pretty stupid comment. The only promotion that Cornette was in complete control was Smoky Mountain. That's it. (FYI: Cornette did finally profit from it too, he sold the video library to WWE.)
 
Cornette has been a part of booking/creative teams at other promotions, he's been head booker a few times. But in everyone of those positions he's always had somebody over him that could always over-rule any creative decision Cornette was involved in. Hell, in ROH Cornette still has to report to Cary Silkin and Sinclair management.
 
Cornette left WCW in 1990. The company lasted another 11 years, and their failure had nothing to do with Cornette's prior involvement. Neither WWE or TNA has gone belly up since Cornette was involved with them (again he wasn't in charge of either.)
 
Now I can believe that ROH is having problems. But that has more to do with Sinclair Broadcasting Groups management. SBG owns ROH and is doing nothing with them.
 
Check the ROH website. They only have 6 shows scheduled for the rest of the year. They don't even have a show for the month of November. That looks like a company that doesn't have any plans for the future.


Posted By: bigfloridapimp
Date Posted: 11/July/2012 at 00:20
IT'S MARK FUCKING MADDEN YOU TARDS! Why on earth would anyone listen to this guy? Didn't Bobby The Brain blast him in a shoot? I think he did. Im like 70% sure. Until I know otherwise Im putting my faith in a class act wrestling god over a guy who I have literally heard nothing but bad things about.


But remember this guys.... IF ROH goes under, you do realize who becomes the "#3..." It's not DGUSA/EVOLVE, it's not CHIKARA, it's CZ fuckin' W. xD


-------------


Posted By: Willy1225
Date Posted: 11/July/2012 at 03:03
ROH is in trouble, I knew it. Once it hired Cornette, they were screwed. Cornette is a terrible booker who doesnt have the slightest clue on how to make a new star. He has been there since what 2010 and they have been going backwards ever since with:
 
The primitive mindset that everyone is easily replaceable so they played hardball with every one of there standout talents who had the gall to demand a raise.
 
The booking angles coming out of 1975 Pro Wrestling playbook.
 
The fact they sold there soul to Sinclair for quick cash and didnt read the fine print. Its funny cause Heyman did the same thing with ECW 1999 when he signed with TNN for TV Coverage.
 
 
People like to throw out the fact that Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and Austin Aries are ROH standouts hence ROH is valueable to wrestling but the fact is those guys would be standouts anywhere as proven by the fact they have had success in wwe and TNA respectively. ROH is in trouble indeed.


-------------
TNA Would Be Nothing Without #TeamDixie



Posted By: bigfloridapimp
Date Posted: 11/July/2012 at 03:45
.................


Davey, Eddie, Steen. They made new stars for their company. You know, when Punk, Joe, Danielson were on top in ROH they were not true stars. They were stars of the company.


-------------


Posted By: Willy1225
Date Posted: 11/July/2012 at 03:47
Forgive me but arent those 3 guys you named already ROH stalwarts and standouts before Cornette got there?

-------------
TNA Would Be Nothing Without #TeamDixie



Posted By: bigfloridapimp
Date Posted: 11/July/2012 at 03:53
Originally posted by Willy1225 Willy1225 wrote:

Forgive me but arent those 3 guys you named already ROH stalwarts and standouts before Cornette got there?
Cornette was there for the Generico/Steen epic feud. And The Wolves were a tag team then.

-------------


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 09/October/2012 at 21:37
is it dead yet?

-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 09/October/2012 at 21:47
Originally posted by #Heel #Heel wrote:

is it dead yet?



It's as dead as their fans sex lives.


-------------


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 09/October/2012 at 21:48
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Originally posted by #Heel #Heel wrote:

is it dead yet?



It's as dead as their fans sex lives.

fan(s) would imply that they have more than 1?


-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: PSachkovsky
Date Posted: 09/October/2012 at 22:30
Wow, they have more than 1? They have 2 now, right? 


Posted By: LennyComa
Date Posted: 10/October/2012 at 13:46
Can i be the one the one that pulls the plug

-------------
We bashed the door in. The bad guy was a dick. I shot him


Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 10/October/2012 at 13:52
Still going but cutting costs left, right and centre and releasing talent because they can't afford to pay them.

They should stick to holding shows in circus tents in front of 5 people where the talent get paid in fair-ground tokens.

-------------
http://s728.photobucket.com/user/fletch78/media/ultimatewarrior1920x120.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 10/October/2012 at 14:15
Quote "I might not sell like I should, and I use kicks and chops way too much, but who cares, I don't wrestle for the fans I wrestle for me" - Davey Richards, Highspots shoot interview




bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahhahahhahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

-------------


Posted By: Poulin316
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 21:18

Let's hope that when ROH dies, the superstars are able to sign with either WWE or TNA. Becuase ROH has phoenomenal talents, talents that should not be wasted in some 5th rate promotion. And personally I would love to see AJ Styles vs Davey Richards or Rhino back on Worldwide television.



-------------
Poulin316


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 21:23
Originally posted by Poulin316 Poulin316 wrote:

Let's hope that when ROH dies, the superstars are able to sign with either WWE or TNA


Lets hope not

Originally posted by Poulin316 Poulin316 wrote:

. Becuase ROH has phoenomenal talents, talents 


Like Who?

Originally posted by Poulin316 Poulin316 wrote:

, talents that should not be wasted in some 5th rate promotion. An


ROH is not 5th rate ... it's worse

Originally posted by Poulin316 Poulin316 wrote:

I would love to see AJ Styles vs Davey Richards or Rhino back on Worldwide television.


No one in the world should want to see Davey Richards on Worldwide television


-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: NFaMouZ
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 21:46
ROH's talent pool has basically been completely sucked dry by major promotions to the point where only the crap remain. 

Aries said it best in an interview around the time he became TNA World Champion where he said the ROH of years past with him, Punk, Bryan etc and the ROH now are incomparable. 


Posted By: Poulin316
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 22:02
Well that's just my opinion. And as far as talent is concerned what about Shelton Benjamin? what about Davey Richards? What about Eddie Edwards? Despite how bad ROH is some of the guys deserve more exposure than they get. It's like where Low ki is right now. I love watching him compete but I can't see it on TV and it's hard or impossible to find his most recent matches on the internet. And as far as no one wanting Davey Richards on TV is concerned, then that's because he doesn't get the right amount of exposure. He's a great performer, just look at the match he had with Eddie Edwards back at Best in the World last year.

-------------
Poulin316


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 22:07
Davey Richards is exactly why i hate ROH

-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: ihatethatmonkee
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 22:09
Shelton might go to TNA, but i don't think Low Ki or Jay Lethal would.
 
Edwards and Richards might have their names out there, same as Steen, but they're not Punk or Danielson; i read what they do, and i don't feel compelled to go on YouTube to see it, purely because the rest of the product is supposed to be so bad, that a polished turd may shine when surrounded by unpolished turds, but it is still a turd.


-------------


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 19/October/2012 at 00:17
Originally posted by Poulin316 Poulin316 wrote:



Well that's just my opinion. And as far as talent is concerned what about Shelton Benjamin? what about Davey Richards? What about Eddie Edwards? Despite how bad ROH is some of the guys deserve more exposure than they get. It's like where Low ki is right now. I love watching him compete but I can't see it on TV and it's hard or impossible to find his most recent matches on the internet. And as far as no one wanting Davey Richards on TV is concerned, then that's because he doesn't get the right amount of exposure. He's a great performer, just look at the match he had with Eddie Edwards back at Best in the World last year.




Davey Richards just worked a 150 capacity hall in my town usually reserved for hammy tribute bands like Maetloaf and Bootleg Beatles.

Shelton Benjamin had to play the Eddie Murphy card and get a fat black woman out to make anyone pay attention to him/laugh at him.

Eddie Edwards was great until he showed too much charisma and ROH toned him down into another Steve Blackman "look at me I AM INTENSE AND ANGRY" clone.



*Not posting in yellow in this section because it shows too much personality and flair not befitting ROH*





-------------


Posted By: Callysto Calaveras
Date Posted: 01/November/2012 at 16:52
Ring of Honor is garbage. Despite all teh fanboys crying about the days of old, that's fine and those days are gone.
 
Also anything that does not have a major network television deal simply DOES NOT EXIST.
 
Recently they secured one and I had the displeasure of wasting my life for an hour on two occasions.
 
The only thing worth it was Kevin Steen. The rest of teh show was complete and utter garbage crowned only by the ever obnoxious Jim Cornette.
 
I'd rather watch Big Time Wrestling and Chad's backyard Preppy Wrestling. or hell Juggalo Championship Wrestling.


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 01/November/2012 at 18:19
Welcome to TUP.

More of this ROH trashing please.


-------------


Posted By: Callysto Calaveras
Date Posted: 01/November/2012 at 20:16
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Welcome to TUP.

More of this ROH trashing please.
 
Thanks.
 
And that's all you are going to get because I'm never going to be back in this fucking cracked ass thread or even ROH master thread again.
 
Ring of Honor...yeah right. More like Ring of Bullshit.
 
It's gatdamn waste of bandwith.
 
C.C. out!


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 02/November/2012 at 16:32
Originally posted by Callysto Calaveras Callysto Calaveras wrote:

More like Ring of Bullshit.



I prefer 'Ring of Pedophiles', rolls easier off the tongue, and is also true thanks to Rob Feinstein seeking out 14 year old boys to anally probe.

-------------


Posted By: DangerZone
Date Posted: 02/November/2012 at 16:52
So thats why davey Richards has always worked stiff...

-------------




Posted By: Raven
Date Posted: 02/November/2012 at 16:53
Why do you think the promotion is so keen to have Steve Corino's son around?

-------------


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 02/November/2012 at 17:04
Look how homoerotic this shit is.



Gayer than those pics I posted of Orton fucking Cody.



-------------


Posted By: ihatethatmonkee
Date Posted: 02/November/2012 at 17:58
i wuv u, givus a smooch


-------------


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 02/November/2012 at 23:26
Ring Of Homos

-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 05/November/2012 at 16:56
ROH have signed the Headbangers as legit competition for the Briscoes.

I have no words.


-------------


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 05/November/2012 at 18:20
As in Mosh and Thrasher ... Fucking Hell!! LOL

-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 05/November/2012 at 19:20
Old news. The Headbangers started worked for ROH in June. About the same time they (again) issued challenges to the WWE & TNA tag champs.
 
Let's think about what this really says about the Headbangers. Here they are former WWF/E tag champs and (technically) NWA tag champs... but now they are jobbing in ROH. And not even on PPV, but on the regular weekly TV show. LOLLOLLOL
 
 
Now I was wondering if their iPPV over the weekend was again hampered by "technical difficulties." I've lost track of how many PPVs/iPPVs in a row had major technical problems that resulted in large portions of their audience being unable to view the show. I want to say it's been 4. And remember, ROH is owned by a television broadcaster. So shouldn't they know how to air a show?
 

 


Posted By: bigfloridapimp
Date Posted: 06/November/2012 at 02:15
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

ROH have signed the Headbangers as legit competition for the Briscoes.

I have no words.
they were in masks, they were with truth martini

-------------


Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 06/November/2012 at 04:20
Originally posted by bigfloridapimp bigfloridapimp wrote:

they were in masks, they were with truth martini
 
 
Hmm, maybe I should go post something in the ROH spoilers thread then...
 
 


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 12/November/2012 at 20:04
Quote  Ring of Honor announced on Monday that former WWE/TNA star Matt Hardy will get a shot at ROH gold at the company's upcoming Final Battle iPPV on 12/16. Matt Hardy will challenge ROH TV Champion Adam Cole at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City. The main event will see ROH World Champion Kevin Steen defending against El Generico in a Ladder War match. For more information, visit ROHWrestling.com.

This will really help the ratings .. well done ROH ... i might start watching now ....


RIP ROH #AboutTime


-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: ihatethatmonkee
Date Posted: 12/November/2012 at 21:15
you've got to love it that any WWE "reject" like Ken Kennedy can go into TNA and be challenging for the TNA Heavyweight title, yet Matt Hardy drops to the third biggest brand, and only gets a match for their TV championship.
 
bet you're regreting saying WWE didn't push you enough now, eh, dumbass.


-------------


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 16/November/2012 at 01:03
What the fuck is a 'ladder war'.

Is that just ROH's way of making it sound INTENSE AND SERIOUS.


-------------


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 16/November/2012 at 07:32
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

What the fuck is a 'ladder war'.

Is that just ROH's way of making it sound INTENSE AND SERIOUS.


Dude THIS IS WRESTLING

-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: MUSA
Date Posted: 27/November/2012 at 02:31
I'm actually quite shocked by the hatred shown to ROH.  I'll admit that some of their booking decisions have been questionable, but I think they are WAY ahead of TNA with regards to being entertaining.  I've been to quite a few shows from ROH and have had fun each and every time.  I absolutely love the Kevin Steen, Jimmy Jacobs and Steven Corino team - it's one of the few factions I'm a huge fan of these days.

The signing of the Headbangers is fine to me.  I actually was a big fan of Mosh and Thrasher in WWF, and the two guys actually look like they can still wrestle.  I don't know if they can be taken as serious threats, but as a 'special attraction' team, I don't see much of a reason why they can't be used in such a way.  I DO think it was very smart to bring them in as heels, as ROH fans tend to HATE anything that was former WWF and are very selective on who they cheer for.  Cornette and others likely thought, "These guys won't get over as good guys" and went the heel route.  If done properly, they can be put over as the cowardly and annoying heel team (ala Brian Christopher/Scott Taylor).

the Jay Lethal/Kevin Steen match, while most hated it, I felt was a smart booking move to progress the story, but I would've much rather have seen Lethal fallen to Steen in some cheap fashion.  I understand why they did what they did (trying to blur fantasy from reality and whatnot), but it was still more entertaining than most shows.  I think it somewhat 'failed' because ROH is booking as if it were a TNA/WWE, but they aren't.  They are still very small in comparison and need to take care of the fans that are their live - as they very much depend on live shows, and don't have massive national distribution deals like TNA/WWE.  I think the angle would've worked, if the fans got a replacement bout as a way to 'go home happy'.

I have faith in ROH.  I feel they can work on some things, but I'm much more hopeful with ROH than TNA at the moment.

One thing I WILL say, that annoys the hell out of me.  How in the world can ROH NOT get their iPPV stream working correclty?  For God's sakes, CHIKARA is doing it right and they are WAY smaller.  Ring of Honor needs to hire a mentor, and group of about 4 straight-from-college or 1-2 year experience video broadcasting team members - cut cost, ensure someone is held accountable and has experience and can teach the younger team members.  It's not very hard to do this.


-------------
• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 27/November/2012 at 18:55
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

but I think they are WAY ahead of TNA with regards to being entertaining. 

that right there has got to be one of the most ridiculous things ive ever seen posted on here - there is nothing entertaining about ROH - its just chain wrestling for 45 minutes at a time


-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Willy1225
Date Posted: 27/November/2012 at 21:37
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

I think they are WAY ahead of TNA with regards to being entertaining.
 


-------------
TNA Would Be Nothing Without #TeamDixie



Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 27/November/2012 at 22:00
Using 'ROH' and 'entertaining' in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

-------------


Posted By: #Heel
Date Posted: 27/November/2012 at 22:24
I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than watch Davey Richards v Eddie Edwards in a 60 minute "THIS IS FUCKING WRESTLING" Iron Man match or any ROH match for that matter

-------------
https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: MUSA
Date Posted: 28/November/2012 at 22:57
My God, what happened to this forum?  I left for a year, and when I left it was full of posters who intelligently discussed and debated.  Now, it's a bash-fest of "U R MORON!  ROH SUXORZ!".  "LET ME USE MEME TO DESTROY U" *Sigh*

EIther way, I disagree.  I do not believe it's 'chain wrestling for 1 hour'.  I believe, what ROH does, is allow a match to build.  I agree, Richards vs. Edwards was not my type of wrestling - but Kevin Steen's story-telling style of a match is helping get over a new style.  To think that TNA is more entertaining than ROH, in my opinion, is an incorrect statement.  I've been thoroughly entertained by ROH's shows, and I think they are starting to blend their older style of wrestling with the 'entertainment' style of wrestling a lot more these days.

TNA is trash these days.  TNA has an erection for the whole "We're taking over" storyline that they have rehashed 4-5 times.  Hogan/Bischoff need to realize that nWo is dead, and trying to bring up that concept will NOT work.  The Aces and 8s angle has been HORRIBLE with little to no 'shocking moments'.  It's a team of B-Wrestlers, oh no - so scary.  *Sigh*  It only gets the live audience, which they see every week, to cheer.  But fans across the world are tuning elsewhere, the ratings from the past iMPACT is proof of that.

My personal opinion: ROH > TNA, you are free to disagree.


-------------
• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner


Posted By: Willy1225
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 00:08
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

I've been thoroughly entertained by ROH's shows
 
I mean this in the nicest way humanly possible when I say you are one of the very few who think this.
 
This is not a TNA mark arguing with ya, this is a wrestling fan arguing with ya. Even the most hardened ROH fans are giving up on it because the roster is at its all-time worst and the storylines are straight out of 1983.
 
Cornette and Sinclair has ruined ROH for even the most marky ROH-bots out there. There is talk that ROH wont even survive 2013 because of how shit they have been the last year or so in all facets of TV business and behind the scenes business.
 
There top talent is leaving and the new up and coming talent on the indy scene are bypassing ROH and going to DGUSA or PWG or Chikara these days to work on their craft in the US and try and get noticed through those feds. Simply put time has caught up to ROH.
 
TNA aint that great at the moment on TV (ppv is a different story) but it trumps anything and everything ROH is doing these days.


-------------
TNA Would Be Nothing Without #TeamDixie



Posted By: MUSA
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 01:12
Willy, you bring up good points - thanks for the response!  In your opinion, what do you think are examples where Sinclair/Cornette hurt their chances of having ROH survive and thrive?  This is NOT sarcasm at all, I'm genuinely interested, as I might be forgetting something that you have noted.

-------------
• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner


Posted By: NFaMouZ
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 01:21
The biggest thing that has killed ROH is the talent they have lost. In the past they were an actual alternative promotion showcasing something different but they did it well (I didn't actually watch it though I have gone back and their matches were a high quality. 

But now they have lost all their top guys and the guys they have thrown to the top are just not the same as Bryan, Punk and Aries. 


Posted By: Willy1225
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 01:45
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

In your opinion, what do you think are examples where Sinclair/Cornette hurt their chances of having ROH survive and thrive?
 
First off I despise ROH and ROH fans because of their holier than thou attitude that ROH is amazing and TNA is utter shit and that if ROH got TNA's TV deal they'd be getting awesome ratings and all that shit. Thats why I played the Bender clip and usually do when someone says that about ROH because I just dont see the appeal of that company. As for your questions (I will be civil in my response):
 
The Sinclair problem:
 
They have given ROH TV time which forces ROH to be a TV show as opposed to niche wrestling show and ROH hasnt adjusted to being a TV show. They are still the niche wrestling fed that has turned away any new viewers they could get by being on TV. ROH in its "gimmicky" form IS NOT suitable for TV because it just doesnt appeal to the masses.
 
Throw in utter shit production values straight out of ECW 1995 and its a recipe for NO GROWTH. And if you try to change what ROH is to appeal to the masses, you lose the hardcore ROH fan. They have tried changing the product, it failed. They tried being what ROH has always been and it failed.
 
The Cornette Problem:
 
He is an idiot plain and simple. He doesnt develop and push new stars but keeps on trucking with the "proven" guys on the roster. He believes his own hype and is blinded by it because he screws up everywhere he has been. Rumor is he is being sent home which will do nothing but help ROH.


-------------
TNA Would Be Nothing Without #TeamDixie



Posted By: EdgeHead
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 04:15
Well, that's gonna be interesting to see where does Cornette go from here because he basically burned bridges with every major promotion he worked for.

And I don't feel like having a rebirth of Smokey Mountain Wrestling, thank you.


Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 07:24
Originally posted by Willy1225 Willy1225 wrote:

The Sinclair problem:
 
They have given ROH TV time which forces ROH to be a TV show as opposed to niche wrestling show and ROH hasnt adjusted to being a TV show. They are still the niche wrestling fed that has turned away any new viewers they could get by being on TV. ROH in its "gimmicky" form IS NOT suitable for TV because it just doesnt appeal to the masses.
 
Throw in utter shit production values straight out of ECW 1995 and its a recipe for NO GROWTH. And if you try to change what ROH is to appeal to the masses, you lose the hardcore ROH fan. They have tried changing the product, it failed. They tried being what ROH has always been and it failed.
 
As the owners, Sinclair is 100% responsible for ROH just flaying away.
 
SBG gave them a weekly TV spot but then did nothing else. SBG should have brought in modern production equipment... but they didn't. I get the feeling that SBG doesn't want to spend much money and grow ROH as a business. ROH was just a cheap way to acquire new content. SBG clearly isn’t interested in making ROH into anything more than it is: a niche gimmick that appeals to a niche market.
 
SBG has the money to make ROH into a much larger promotion. SBG has the experienced TV personnel to make their show look like top-notch. SBG has the connections to get ROH a syndication deal that would get them on across the USA. SBG brings all that to the table and more… but they don’t lift a finger to make ROH into anything more. They have the money and the power to build ROH up, but they haven’t done it.
 
 
Originally posted by Willy1225 Willy1225 wrote:

The Cornette Problem:
 
He is an idiot plain and simple. He doesnt develop and push new stars but keeps on trucking with the "proven" guys on the roster. He believes his own hype and is blinded by it because he screws up everywhere he has been. Rumor is he is being sent home which will do nothing but help ROH.
 

Cornette isn’t an idiot and he hasn’t screwed up everywhere he’s gone. Last I heard he left TNA on good terms with Dixie Carter as his beef was with Vince Russo & Ed Ferrara. And I would love to see him join TNA at commentary as he could still be a terrific heel announcer.
 
Cornette’s biggest sin in ROH has been his efforts to create a TV show out of the promotion which, of course, was his job as Executive Producer. Other than that, he needs to be reminded that he’s not a teenager that used to hold down 6 or 7 jobs backstage. More likely ROH ownership needs to be reminded of that. After all somebody had to approve (or insist upon) Cornette trying to be an on-camera authority, writer, booker, producer, and PR guy all at once. To be blunt, Cornette is too old now to be trying to fill multiple jobs and should be allowed to be just a producer. 
 

Originally posted by EdgeHead EdgeHead wrote:

And I don't feel like having a rebirth of Smokey Mountain Wrestling, thank you.

There’s already an NWA-affiliate operating in that general area as NWA Smoky Mountain.
 
And despite the original Smoky Mountain Wrestling being “old-timey” it was still the regional promotion that Glenn Jacobs, Chris Candido & Tammy “Sunny” Sytch, the Gangstas, Chris Jericho, Lance Storm and other young talent got the exposure that lead them to be signed to the national promotions. And I know some of those people are also among his biggest detractors, but unlike other promoters Cornette didn't try to keep any of them trapped in SMW when the big companies came calling.
 
 


Posted By: HBKDX97
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 08:39
I'll give credit to Cornette for his announcing and promo skills. No one can deny the genius he had when it came to his delivery and the fire he possessed when he got on the stick.
But he was a VERY inept promoter/ booker/ whatever job title it needs to be called.
Thundarr's mention of all the talent he had are slightly misleading, given the fact that in that day and age many people "had" those guys and gave them exposure in different areas of the game. If Chris Jericho had gone straight to WCW or WWF after his run in SMW with "the Thrillseekers" then the point would be valid, but Jericho had to claw and fight his way through terrible booking in SMW to get noticed by NJPW, where he did well and got noticed by... ECW. Where he got noticed by... WCW to be a boring jobber for a long time before he became an entertaining jobber.
He is legendary for his old-timey approach to running a show that simply doesn't cut the mustard, and didn't cut the mustard in 1995 for that matter. ROH is a shell of it's former self, and the talent there have little to do with the fact that everything has been booked around "let's become a gimmick promotion for the smark fans and everyone throw lots of kicks and cut promos about 'respect'." In my opinion of course.


-------------


Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 18:22
I've never liked ROH as hour long chain wrestling matches that end in a time-limit draw after both men kick out of every finishing move known to man is just not my bag, but I do appreciate that back in the day they had some decent talent in the likes of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Nigel McGuinness, Austin Aries, Samoa Joe and AJ Styles. But in there lies the problem, all this talent has defected to either TNA or WWE or even just to the indies because they know that's the only way they will make a living from wrestling.

ROH is a minor league promotion that can't offer the kind of contracts that will keep any decent talent around for the longterm, all the talent I listed and more have left and ROH have not replaced them with anyone of a similar calibre.

Throw in the fact they look small-time, the production values are shockingly bad, the fans are idiot marks who don't understand what wrestling is really all about, the matches lack story-telling and storylines are non-existant.

-------------
http://s728.photobucket.com/user/fletch78/media/ultimatewarrior1920x120.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 29/November/2012 at 22:53
Russ, let me clarify. I was in no way attempting to credit Cornette or SMW with breaking Jericho or anyone else. I was trying to address the popular misconception many people (including Willy) have of SMW. There are a lot of people that are convinced that Cornette set up SMW based entirely upon the promoting of older established talent and he somehow keeps the “young guys down.” (Usually they cite this as establishing a pattern of behavior that they then claim he’s continued since.) But that wasn’t the case.
 
SMW was like most of the smaller regional promotions of the early 1980’s. It was a widely varied mix of talent at very different stages of their careers. There were green rookies straight through past-their-peak seasoned veterans. The older guys were less in demand with the bigger companies so they tended to stick around longer while the younger guys gained experience and moved on. But in no way was Cornette afraid of pushing new talent or did he try to hold anyone down. However SMW was in no position to keep any of those younger talents around when the big companies came calling.
 
Since SMW ultimately failed as a company, a lot of the guys that worked there now tend to distance themselves from it, or speak as if they secretly knew along that the company was going to fail (something we see that in regards to WCW as well.) But in 1992-1994, SMW was as hot a regional company you could find. It wasn’t a major national promotion, but just its geographical territory put it close enough for WCW, ECW and WWF to easily scout the talent.
 
It’s easy to criticize the idea of having a really traditional Southern style promotion now. But at that time there was a legitimate fanbase crying out for this exact product. If there hadn’t been any demand for this sort of show it wouldn’t have lasted the 4 years it did. In fact it’s actually amazing that SMW lasted 4 years because the entire wrestling industry was in a massive recession (a period often remembered for the WWF’s numerous sexual harassment lawsuits and their first steroid scandal.)
 
Now that I think more about it, ROH is far more like Dallas-based Global Wrestling Federation. GWF started out a bit rough but they had a lot going for them. They had experienced promoters in back handling the booking, solid money backing them from Atlanta, they had the coveted ESPN timeslot with gave them instant national TV coverage, and they had a roster full of great talent that had been lost in the closures of the AWA and WCCW. Yet despite all they had going for them, GWF became a string of mistakes. Their financial backers bailed on them causing the company to be sold, which led to a lot of backstage turnover. ESPN no longer wanted wrestling so they constantly pre-empted GWF programming. GWF never grabbed that national TV audience anyway because they always appeared to be a small-time Texas-centric niche promotion. And all that great talent was constantly being poached by WWF, WCW, New Japan and others. It's hard to understand how a collection of smart experienced business people could have repeatedly made the wrong choices, but that's what happened with GWF. And I get that same vibe from ROH now.


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 30/November/2012 at 17:36
Cornette is just as bitter as Butt Hurt Bret Hart, thank god he's been black listed to the carnival indy feds.

-------------



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net