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John Cena on RAW

Printed From: TUP Wrestling Forum
Category: Wrestling
Forum Name: WWE Raw
Forum Description: Can't cope if you miss Michael Cole? Not happy with the championship scene? Anything regarding the flagship broadcast of WWE can be put here.
URL: http://www.tupwrestlingforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13565
Printed Date: 13/November/2018 at 02:24
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Topic: John Cena on RAW
Posted By: ozwwefan
Subject: John Cena on RAW
Date Posted: 07/September/2010 at 16:30
       Before commenting on the Cena v Gabriel match on this week's RAW (6 Sept), have to say I was surprised there was no specific Cena thread. I guess with the disdain people seem to hold for Cena no one bothered - but hey, I have been on TUP for 9 months and it was the first time I actually thought to write something about a Cena match myself.
       Like Cena or not, he is the top of the heap in WWE - and saying that his only fans are 'sheep' or kids or women is an easy way to dismiss his popularity, but week after week, year after year, this guy enters to huge pops and crowd support, which means that people do find him entertaining (and charismatic). Sometimes I think even Cena must be amazed that people love him like they do.
       Yeah, Cena has his '4 Moves' you see every match (Shoulder charge off the ropes, back drop, 5 fingers, attitude adjustment, but to be fair he does do other stuff including a good range of submission moves. Yeah, he's 'Mr Squeeky Clean', but hey, if he didn't play the role, someone else would. It also makes him a great face for the company, and no-one can deny that Cena is a good bloke and handles the fans and media well.
       Personally, I have never had the angst about him that some wrestling purists seem to. He gets out there each week, puts on a show that entertains people and you can never fault the guy for his professionalism and energy. Yeah the 'Super-Cena' thing is funny at times, but after sitting through Super-Goldberg demolishing everything for years with no skill and no personality, Cena looks good lol (i.e. 'super-men' are part of the wrestling landscape).
 
       Now what inspired this Cena rant?
       This week Cena was pitted against Justin Gabriel. I think everyone knew Cena was going to beat Gabriel from the get-go, but what followed was 9 minutes or so of humour, entertaining wrestling, and Cena's graciousness.
       Cena didn't go for a squash with Gabriel, and was fantastic in selling Gabriel's moves. The length of the match (and Cena) allowed Gabriel to shine for the first time in a WWE solo match, and produce some wonderful moves that he never has time for in shorter matches.
       It was pretty clear that these guys put a lot of preparation into this match as it flowed really well with each sharing the spotlight at times. Cena gave Gabriel a great rub in this match, and allowed Gabriel to show why he deserves a spot on the roster (of RAW or SD) - even if there was no way in hell he was going to beat WWEs #1 star.
       Cena finished with an Attitude Adjustment off the top rope - again, a great sell for Gabriel as Cena had to go to those lengths to 'finish' him.
        Good match and 8/10 for Cena on this one. Here's the match -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DVWCo8ePF4&feature=sub - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DVWCo8ePF4&feature=sub
 
 
 
 


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                             &n



Replies:
Posted By: Steven Nyte
Date Posted: 07/September/2010 at 18:52

You know what, I agree. While I can´t stand John Cena´s on screen persona, I just can´t, I have to respect and admire his work ethic. You never see the guy one inch out of shape, so to speak, he always looks well rested, top trained, prepared, he doesn´t flunk his lines (*nudge* @ Alicia Fox)... Yeah, he´s a good poster boy for the kiddified WWE we have today.

Also agreed about the Gabriel match this week, he gave Justin a very nice length, made him look really good at times and took great efforts to end the match in his favour, as we know it would end. I think Justin and Cena got together before the show, talked the match through and apparently Johnny boy was impressed enough with the "kid" to give Justin a good outing.
 
Definately one of Johns better matches. no doubt.


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Posted By: jean-vic
Date Posted: 07/September/2010 at 22:33
No one has ever doubted that Cena was a good bloke. I've always thought he was a good bloke, but as a wrestler I can't stand him. Why? Simply because there are, in my eyes, more deserving people in the company and for years he has hogged the lime light. I mean, people have said to me in the past that he is only doing what he's told, and for me, that is crap. In a TLC match with Edge, a match Edge had never lost and Cena had never fought, in Edge's hometown, you're seriously telling me he couldn't have dropped the belt??
 
On the same token, I don't like how genuinely talented people, great wrestlers in days past have been surpassed by a man with nothing of their talent. Yes, Cena works hard. Yes, he is dedicated. I've heard it all before. But for me, it is a crime that he has won the world title 9 times while wrestlers like Shawn Michaels only won it 4 times and Bret Hart only won it 5. These were great wrestlers, and in fact they arguably had the greatest match of all time when HBK beat Bret for the World Title in THE Iron Man Match. Yet, when all is said and done, John Cena will be remembered as having won more than them, been more successful than them etc. For me, that is wrong. But, I guess, that is the nature of the Sports Entertainment Beast where WRESTLING takes a back seat.
 
The other problem I have with him, but not so much with him personally, is the way he is sold. He never bothered me that much before. He was just a necessary evil, but after one match in particular I went from disliking the character, but not really bothering, to outright hating the John Cena (the wrestler) persona because of the commentators. I mean, I can't remember the exact match, but I think it might have been Edge v Cena v HBK for the WWE Title. Not sure. Anyway, Cena hit the FU on the third guy (not sure it was Edge) and then turned around and was hit by the Sweet Chin Music. Michaels fell down out of exhaustion while Cena fell backwards naturally from the kick but landed on Edge. Ref counts, Cena retains or wins or whatever happened. Long time ago. What annoyed me was the fact that the commentators never mentioned it, instead talking about his resiliency etc etc and then on the next RAW Cena mouths off about how he deserved it, how he won yada yada with no mention of the incident. After that, I hated the character because I saw that he would never be gotten over clean and that he would always be portrayed as this do no wrong face. Now, that is not a jibe at the man, but at the character.
 
I don't like those characters, that can do no wrong. It's just Hogan all over again. I prefer the conflicted wrestlers, the tweeners. Austin, Angle, Triple H, The Rock etc. These men were faces but they did questionable things in terms of storyline at times. They were human. Cena comes across like he lives in a box and is wheeled every Monday and at every PPV to wrestle, and then gets packaged away again. I like real characters. Yes, sometimes that can be limited. Yes, I like Kane, but I never and still don't like the supernatural elements to it. I liked the deranged, real man that was there who had a haunted childhood. That was good. I liked Austin's downtrodden employee rebelling against the boss. I like Fourtune airing their real life grievances in a kayfabe story. A lot of people want realism in wrestling, not a comic book where everything is black and white. Good v Bad. If Cena became more real, he'd go down a lot better.


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The Fire still Burns!


Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 24/September/2010 at 16:30
-- While it hasn't been a week yet since Randy Orton won the WWE Title, there is already some people in the company who are second-guessing the decision to put the belt back on him. Some feel that they pushed Orton hard for weeks and then gave him the belt and nobody seemed to care about it once he won. Some people were pushing to put the belt back on John Cena while others feel that this is a sign that Cena needs to turn heel because his face run is over.

Partial Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter
 
How many times have we heard this though? Cena has been more stale than a month old loaf of bread for ages now, a heel turn would do wonders for his character and provide him with a huge amount of fresh matches and feuds, but WWE wont do this untill someone can rival his merchandise sales.
 
Randy Orton is getting bigger pops than Cena but WWE wont see him as the same kind of draw as he doesnt have the kiddy appeal and the ability to shift the merch that Cena does. Also I dont think Randy will put in the time doing promotional work that Cena does.
 
Personally I would keep Cena face and just turn some other guys heel to give him fresh opposition.


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Posted By: badguy
Date Posted: 24/September/2010 at 17:07
Turn Cena into a tweener, make him more like Orton, where he will do both heelish and face stuff inside the ring, it would freshen his character a tad little bit but it will also give Cena the chance to keep doing the promotional work that he does.

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Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 24/September/2010 at 19:26
Originally posted by badguy badguy wrote:

Turn Cena into a tweener, make him more like Orton, where he will do both heelish and face stuff inside the ring, it would freshen his character a tad little bit but it will also give Cena the chance to keep doing the promotional work that he does.
Yeah I've said for years this is what they need to do with Cena. Give him back his some of his edge that he had when he was doing his hip hop/street thug gimmick, get him to stop sucking up to the fans so much, this surely wouldnt harm his kiddy appeal but would give him more of a adult-fanbase as well.

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Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 13/October/2010 at 16:35
http://vids.wwe.com/index.php/video/Raw-RTruth-offers-John-Cena-controversial-advice/632139122001/ - http://vids.wwe.com/index.php/video/Raw-RTruth-offers-John-Cena-controversial-advice/632139122001/
 
Cena looked quite heelish with Truth talking to him, like he didn't want R Truth telling him what he should do.
 
Months down the line Cena might end up turning by taking out Truth.
 
Raw sadly was once again the Cena Show.


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Posted By: Editude
Date Posted: 13/October/2010 at 16:48

Raw will be the cena show as long as he is not drafted or injured, i think it's time for him to have less TV time already. =/



Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 13/October/2010 at 17:55
He's a rookies (with less than 6 months on the main roster) personal bitchboy, I'm not sure what you guys want from him tbh. He isn't in the title run and is actually putting over guys for the first spell of his career.

How that translates to Raw being 'the Cena show', I have no idea. Obviously hes still going to be on screen, hes WWE's biggest star FFS and in the middle of their big ongoing angle.

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Posted By: HOO-RAR
Date Posted: 13/October/2010 at 18:09
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

He's a rookies (with less than 6 months on the main roster) personal bitchboy, I'm not sure what you guys want from him tbh. He isn't in the title run and is actually putting over guys for the first spell of his career.

How that translates to Raw being 'the Cena show', I have no idea. Obviously hes still going to be on screen, hes WWE's biggest star FFS and in the middle of their big ongoing angle.

Their biggest draw? Taking up a good portion of the airtime? HEAVEN FORBID. And you're right, he's actually doing some good for once with this new Nexus angle, even with my sporadic viewing of the product in general I've read the reports and they suggest that Cena isn't really hogging the ME spotlight.


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> Official TNA resident mark <
TUP Long Term Poster 2012
TUP Quality > Quantity Poster 08/09


Posted By: ozwwefan
Date Posted: 14/October/2010 at 01:11
         I have to admit that during the show this week, I was thinking as well that Cena was getting too much face time on camera, but as H-R said, I can understand that as he is the biggest star and the 'N' angle is RAW's main storyine atm.
       I've found it interesting watching how Cena handles this storyline, and think he's doing well giving huge rubs to all these rookies, taking lots of beatings and losses while still looking strong. Have to admit I loved his demolition of Hennig and Harris after his match with Miz.
       I'm just glad that for the first time 'N' moved beyond the pointless weekly gang beat-downs.


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                             &n


Posted By: badguy
Date Posted: 15/October/2010 at 10:48
-- John Cena is featured on the cover of the latest issue of Fighting Spirit, with the headline reading "Have We Cena 'Nuff?" To view the cover, go to http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk/ - http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk The synopsis reads: "Between his superhero act getting incredibly old and him almost ruining the careers of people like The Miz and Nexus by squashing them completely, FSM has had it up to here with John Cena. But is it really all his fault? FSM examines WWE's top man and wonders if he's to blame for ruining WWE for everyone."

lol at FSM getting sick of John Cena and blaming him for ruining the careers of people like Miz and Nexus, last I checked, he didnt ruin Miz's career, was close but didn't and he didn't destroy Nexus he is actually helping make them look good and with him being with the group, it seems Nexus are getting good pushes by being with Cena.

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Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 15/October/2010 at 11:37
Originally posted by badguy badguy wrote:

-- John Cena is featured on the cover of the latest issue of Fighting Spirit, with the headline reading "Have We Cena 'Nuff?" To view the cover, go to http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk/ - http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk The synopsis reads: "Between his superhero act getting incredibly old and him almost ruining the careers of people like The Miz and Nexus by squashing them completely, FSM has had it up to here with John Cena. But is it really all his fault? FSM examines WWE's top man and wonders if he's to blame for ruining WWE for everyone."

lol at FSM getting sick of John Cena and blaming him for ruining the careers of people like Miz and Nexus, last I checked, he didnt ruin Miz's career, was close but didn't and he didn't destroy Nexus he is actually helping make them look good and with him being with the group, it seems Nexus are getting good pushes by being with Cena.
 
Having bought the mag and read the article, I think the article was fair and impartial (if someone else bought the mag and has a scanner please try and put it up in this thread).
 
It mentions how poor his punches and selling are, but is positive about his workrate and how he speaks the company line about things like the PG rating, MMA etc.
 
It mentions how after being let down by the likes of The Rock, Lesnar etc leaving for pastures new, Vince in Cena has a guy he can depend on to be around for years to come.


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Posted By: badguy
Date Posted: 15/October/2010 at 11:43
Originally posted by admin admin wrote:

Originally posted by badguy badguy wrote:

-- John Cena is featured on the cover of the latest issue of Fighting Spirit, with the headline reading "Have We Cena 'Nuff?" To view the cover, go to http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk/ - http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk The synopsis reads: "Between his superhero act getting incredibly old and him almost ruining the careers of people like The Miz and Nexus by squashing them completely, FSM has had it up to here with John Cena. But is it really all his fault? FSM examines WWE's top man and wonders if he's to blame for ruining WWE for everyone."

lol at FSM getting sick of John Cena and blaming him for ruining the careers of people like Miz and Nexus, last I checked, he didnt ruin Miz's career, was close but didn't and he didn't destroy Nexus he is actually helping make them look good and with him being with the group, it seems Nexus are getting good pushes by being with Cena.
 
Having bought the mag and read the article, I think the article was fair and impartial (if someone else bought the mag and has a scanner please try and put it up in this thread).
 
It mentions how poor his punches and selling are, but is positive about his workrate and how he speaks the company line about things like the PG rating, MMA etc.
 
It mentions how after being let down by the likes of The Rock, Lesnar etc leaving for pastures new, Vince in Cena has a guy he can depend on to be around for years to come.
 
Yeah well I didnt get the mag, so I wouldnt know, but yeah Cena is someone Vince can depend on to stick with the business for the long run, thus why he probably pushes Cena so much.


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Posted By: Journey
Date Posted: 16/October/2010 at 20:40
Cena is Vince's cash cow. He has the looks the tweeners get excited for, the Superman moves that grasps the hero worshiping youngsters -- he is the "IT" factor.  Now Cena can actually wrestle, if you watched any of his training video's.  The WWE has watered down his moves much like they will water down Kaval's. Lets face it, other than the AA and the STF, there are no moves that will injure Cena.
 
Cena is helping to push this Nexus group over and that is all well and good.  What bothers me about this Nexus storyline with Cena is that the WWE is promoting bullying.  Now in the news there was a 33 yr old woman bullying a child with Huntington's disease, not only on facebook but also personally.  There have been a number of suicides due to bullying hitting the news lately as well, from grade school to college level.   So I would have to wonder why Vince McMahon, with Linda running for Senate in CT, would turn the storyline to bullying?  Not to mention belittling. 
 
This part makes no sense.  If they are going to turn Cena heel, then do so.  If they are going to keep him as a slave to Nexus, then they need to change the bullying aspect of it and just make him a water boy, the kids can understand that one and it has no gang related ramifications.
 
I am however grateful that the senseless beatdowns are finished (for the most part) -- I just have to say I can't understand where Vince is going with this and yet still claiming it's family oriented.


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A Proud Member of Cenation
A Follower of the Chosen One


Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 24/October/2010 at 23:11

http://vids.wwe.com/index.php/video/Raw-Randy-Orton--John-Cena-vs-Husky-Harris--Michael-McGillicutty/640768943001/ - http://vids.wwe.com/index.php/video/Raw-Randy-Orton--John-Cena-vs-Husky-Harris--Michael-McGillicutty/640768943001/

It's been good to see him away from the title, but it's disapointing he's getting more airtime anyway than the title.

I'm glad he didn't have to lay down for Henig/Harris as it enough that other week he eliminated himself from the battle royal.

He's getting lots of sympathy from fans in the crowd who clearly don't realise the show is scripted.



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Posted By: JohnKy75
Date Posted: 23/November/2010 at 16:10
With WWE pushing PG as much as they have been its not hard to see why some of the crowd doesnt get that its scripted, Im hoping with him being "fired" itll cut his camera time down although after the finish to the Barrett Orton match last night with Cenas interference I dont see it, they will find some lame way to bring him back.

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Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 23/November/2010 at 16:18
Is he doing another film?

I cant see him spending any time out, which would be a shame because it'll be another 'fired' angle ending with the same result.

I'd like him to go to Smackdown, as it wouldn't be as much of a cop-out as returning back on Raw. One loophole could be Cena as anonymous GM, but I'm not sure of all the incidents between Cena & the mystery GM so it may be condradictory, IDK.

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Posted By: JohnKy75
Date Posted: 23/November/2010 at 16:28
I could go with Cena being Anon GM but the Anon GM said he didnt really like Bret Hart that really wouldnt fit with Cena being he and Hart cooked up the whole fake injury thing to swerve Vinnie Mac

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Posted By: xXDemon_DuckXx
Date Posted: 23/November/2010 at 17:14
I'm calling it right now: Cena gets reinstated before the Rumble, makes a "surprise" return and wins the Rumble, goes on to Wrestlemania and faces Barrett for the WWE Championship, where he wins, therefore, Superman gets his revenge and marks the end of Nexus.
 
The Rumble just wouldn't be a Rumble without somebody making a surprise comeback now would it?


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Posted By: JohnKy75
Date Posted: 23/November/2010 at 17:20
I am leaning toward something like that, obviously Nexus will not split up till  draft in April, Unless they are gonna have Cena and Orton form a team to fight the Nexus at WM to keep them main event but out of the title picture, I see Cena Barrett as the only thing that makes sense and is a superface ending to what is the biggest story line WWE has had this year.

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Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 24/November/2010 at 00:24
Quote John Cena has been removed from the Raw roster on wwe.com and placed in the 'Alumni' section after last nights 'firing'.



lol, well thats one way to make it a tad convincing.

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Posted By: ozwwefan
Date Posted: 24/November/2010 at 00:27
Originally posted by xXDemon_DuckXx xXDemon_DuckXx wrote:

I'm calling it right now: Cena gets reinstated before the Rumble, makes a "surprise" return and wins the Rumble, goes on to Wrestlemania and faces Barrett for the WWE Championship, where he wins, therefore, Superman gets his revenge and marks the end of Nexus.
 
The Rumble just wouldn't be a Rumble without somebody making a surprise comeback now would it?
       This a truely disturbing post. The thought of the N story running until WM27 is just awful. If the 'N' angle  is still running by the new year, I'll stop watching RAW, and stick with SD.
        I'm bored with the endless beatdowns, and the show being stolen by mediochre hacks who provide absolutely zero entertainment for the airtime and talent they consume. Every minute these guys are on screen is a minute less other established talent have to do anything worthwhile.
       RAW is supposed to be the WWE flagship, where the best they have to offer should be on show each week - and the hacks in 'N' are not the best WWE has to offer.
         


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                             &n


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 24/November/2010 at 03:00
Quote John Cena just wrote on twitter that he "bought tickets" for this Monday's Raw in Philadelphia, so there's your next twist in the Cena is "fired" storyline.




For fucks sake.

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Posted By: The Pain Train
Date Posted: 24/November/2010 at 03:17
Originally posted by ozwwefan ozwwefan wrote:

Originally posted by xXDemon_DuckXx xXDemon_DuckXx wrote:

I'm calling it right now: Cena gets reinstated before the Rumble, makes a "surprise" return and wins the Rumble, goes on to Wrestlemania and faces Barrett for the WWE Championship, where he wins, therefore, Superman gets his revenge and marks the end of Nexus.
 
The Rumble just wouldn't be a Rumble without somebody making a surprise comeback now would it?
       This a truely disturbing post. The thought of the N story running until WM27 is just awful. If the 'N' angle  is still running by the new year, I'll stop watching RAW, and stick with SD.
        I'm bored with the endless beatdowns, and the show being stolen by mediochre hacks who provide absolutely zero entertainment for the airtime and talent they consume. Every minute these guys are on screen is a minute less other established talent have to do anything worthwhile.
       RAW is supposed to be the WWE flagship, where the best they have to offer should be on show each week - and the hacks in 'N' are not the best WWE has to offer.
         

The only hacks I see in the Nexus are Otunga and possibly Slater.
 
And I echo John the Baptist's sentiments on the Cena/Raw situation.


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Posted By: JohnKy75
Date Posted: 24/November/2010 at 03:23
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Quote John Cena just wrote on twitter that he "bought tickets" for this Monday's Raw in Philadelphia, so there's your next twist in the Cena is "fired" storyline.




For fucks sake.
Couldnt have said it better myself JTB geez

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Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 24/November/2010 at 11:26
From Jim Ross Website.......
 
Quote John Cena arguably delivered his best ever promo Monday night on Raw as it felt naturally organic and truly reality based.  

The buzz on Cena's 'firing' by Wade Barrett is a hot topic on this site and one that will likely be addressed in more detail next Monday on Raw on yet another three hour special on the USA Network. 

I know you've to suspend disbelief but........
 
1) What's betting that less than a week before Raw that Cena just happens to have front row seats for the show which would have sold out ages ago?
 
2) Why hasn't WWE.COM put up a future endeavours article for him?


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Posted By: Matic-B
Date Posted: 30/November/2010 at 23:56
John Cena is doing the right thing, he knows he is the face of WWE, and they need to establish new stars, and he's working with Nexus, he trying to make Wade Barret and Justin Gabriel to be breakout solo stars, and others, so I respect Cena doing his thing to bring new stars out.


Posted By: ozwwefan
Date Posted: 01/December/2010 at 00:16

        I agree Matic-B, and you can see it in how good he tries to make the N guys look when wrestling them. Without Cena to give them the rub, the N crew would be going nowhere.

        I found Cena's run on last nights RAW pretty entertaining, not least for the comeuppance he handed out to Slater, Hennig, and Gabriel. (Husky and Otunga sneaking around back stage was pretty funny too). I was relieved they kept Juan Cena in the box, and let Cena play 'himself' for this.
       The parking lot beatdown on Gabriel in particular was really physically rough, good stuff. I found it funny that Cena suddenly had an army of jobbers happy to help him beat up Gabriel, Husky, and Otunga. Where the hell have they been for the last 6 months? lmao.


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                             &n


Posted By: wwejim01
Date Posted: 01/December/2010 at 04:57
I think Cena is cool, I just hate his charater, hes the definition of the "ENTERTAINMENT" in wwe today. I like the Nexus/Cena storyline, they have kept this storyline going for months and I think that Cena was the perfect pick for facing the Nexus. As long as Juan doesn't appear then this storyline will keep me interested!


Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 01/December/2010 at 11:30
http://vids.wwe.com/index.php/video/Raw-Mark-Henry--Yoshi-Tatsu-vs-Justin-Gabriel--Heath-Slater/692304624001/ - http://vids.wwe.com/index.php/video/Raw-Mark-Henry--Yoshi-Tatsu-vs-Justin-Gabriel--Heath-Slater/692304624001/
 
What a coincidence that at such short notice of being fired he could still get a front row ticket for Raw.
 
He wasted having the ticket as he was only there to watch a few minutes ringside.
 
I liked CM Punk wanting him arrested for spilling his diet soda LOL


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Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 01/December/2010 at 13:02
It made a mockery of the whole ''firing'' angle that Cena was able to jump the barrier and wander around without any security in sight. Cena is supposed to no longer be a WWE employee yet he still had way more tv time than most on Raw.
 
WWE should have kept Cena off tv for a few weeks at least to sell the firing, especially after Cena's emotional good-bye promo last week.
 
The good thing to come from this is the fact that WWE may be able to give Cena's character more of a edge again with him being the company rebel who storms the arenas every week.


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Posted By: JohnKy75
Date Posted: 01/December/2010 at 16:03
Honestly I like the way this is going, they did well with Cena saying what he did about Nexus and security, it makes the "you messed with the wrong guy" scenario more believable. Now that it has nothing to do with the title this has gotten better. Besides Punk on commentary, this was the highlight of Raw for me this week.

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Posted By: LegendOf1983
Date Posted: 07/December/2010 at 04:35
Please tell me I am not the only one who is getting bored of John Cena. Don't get me wrong i am sure is on hell of a guy but he gets way too much exposure. WWE admitted themselves when they did the whole stand up campaign that 75% of their audience is over the age of 18. Most of the people in that category hate cena. I am in no way saying get rid of cena altogether just reduce the amount of particpation he has and try pushing someone else or maybe even try creating more new stars.
 
Lets see what people make of this.
 
Rant Over
 


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LegendOf1983


Posted By: wwejim01
Date Posted: 07/December/2010 at 06:23
I agree, even when the guy is "FIRED" he still gets the most attention. Thats why SmackDown is the place to go for a raising star, because they get more attention there like Drew, Kofi, Del Rio, and Cody are. The only raising star on RAW right now is Morrison, but what happened to Nexus vs WWE, now its Nexus vs Cena. WWE couldn't beat Nexus, but now Nexus is starting to split because of CENA!!! I've been bored of Cena since 2007, thats around the time that he became THE star of the wwe. He needs to go to SmackDown, RAW needs a change, Cena can't be RAWS STAR forever.....well I'm done ranting, now that Orton is now AS popular with the KIDS WWE Universe I think that unfortunatly Orton will probably be heading to the Blue Brand during the next draft!


Posted By: L-shizzel
Date Posted: 07/December/2010 at 06:52
In a way both orton and cena are getting the superman treatment but again nexus.should be feeding with someone else for a while and if it continues when season 4 is over there may be some additions to.the group

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Posted By: JohnKy75
Date Posted: 21/January/2011 at 00:28
Quote In 2010, John Cena headlined 10 of 13 WWE pay-per-events. In two of the shows he did not headline, he was still involved in the main event. Those matches were Wade Barrett vs. Randy Orton where he was once Barrett's corner man and once the special referee
 
I have given the devil his due in recent posts, but 10 out of 13 hes been the headliner? And involved in 2 of the other ones main events...To say that we have had a lot of John Cena would be an understatement. Goes to show that there could be a lack of pushes going on...especailly face pushes...this is crazy even by todays lacking standards.
 


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Posted By: mikej690
Date Posted: 19/March/2011 at 06:00
Seth Barkley sent the following:

"I haven't seen this anywhere but during Triple H's appearance on Opie and Anthony last week, they talked about people not wanting to see John Cena in the main event of every RAW and pay-per-view event. Triple H agreed with them and said it's a discussion WWE officials have all the time but they never make the change because they are concerned for ratings."

Partial source: PWInsider

 I have to say i already knew about this! I remember when John cena broke his neck and was out for months and Y2J was the world champion at the time and it seemed like noone could beat him. When John cena came back at survivor series in his first match he beat Y2J for the world title. Thats how wwe depends on john cena that much! It's like When sting came back on impact and beat jeff hardy (a man that it seemed nobody could beat) for the TNA world title. The company will do better with or without them on the show. Jeff hardy had a massive fan base in wwe! Vince or whoever were worried that if he left wwe so will his fan base.  When he came to TNA almost all of his fan base either turned on him or don't have a clue where he is. Did smackdown suffer because of it? NO! If John cena gets hurt again and can't wrestle the show will still go on.

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YES! YES! YES!


Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 24/March/2011 at 18:01
Another dropped angle in the space of a week too........
 
Quote The news from last week that John Cena suffered a concussion at the hands of The Miz and Alberto Del Rio was an angle and not a legit injury. WWE must have had second thoughts as it wasn't mentioned on RAW this week.

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

I can only think that maybe management thought he might have concussion so brought it up.
 
Then when he got checked over and he got the all clear they didn't want to keep it going in kayfabe.


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Posted By: MariaS
Date Posted: 24/March/2011 at 20:58
that right there though could have been used by both Miz and Del Rio to get some additional heat.  


Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 22/April/2011 at 15:34
http://vids.wwe.com/11796/raw-john-cena-sin-cara-vs-the-mi - http://vids.wwe.com/11796/raw-john-cena-sin-cara-vs-the-mi
 
Is having the golden boy teaming with the new guy a good way for him to be elevated?
 
Personally i'd have kept Cena away from Sin Cara because he overshadowed him.
 
I hope Extreme Rules isn't where the title goes back on him.


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Posted By: MegaManXXV
Date Posted: 08/May/2011 at 01:03
I really wish this thread read .. "John Cena on SmackDown."

When the draft happened and he was the 1st pick I was so happy that finally Raw would get a new face at the top. But as the show went on and seeing all the other picks, I knew there was no way he would stay on SD and they really could have got him back 2 Raw a more clever way than they did but it is what it is ..

John Cena is an excellent worker and deserves everything he gets but he lacks variety in certain aspects of his character. I wish he would go back 2 Basic Thuganomics because his abilty to freestyle gave him that variety. If u rap the same rhyme, it gets stale. And that's exactly what happened to this guy and I have a feeling Orton will be gettin the same treatment.

If he would have moved to SD, he could have had new matches, new feuds and could have really brought home the fact that SD isint just the "b show". They were making it seem like Cena going to SD would have been a bad thing, like that's no place for him to be. But I digress ... Cena = '80's Hogan and that's that ..

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** Your Welcome **


Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 27/June/2011 at 06:07
Over this weekend, John Cena reached his cumulative 1,000th day as WWE Champion.  This means that by the Money in the Bank  PPV, Cena will have moved passed the legendary Pedro Morales on the list of combined reigns.  However.... Morales only had the one reign that lasted that whole period.
 
Seeing as WWE likes to count both the WHC and the WWE Championship as world titles, by WWE logic Cena has reigned over 1,108 days as "the Champ."  Needs just 47 days to pass Triple H's total of 1,155 days as world champion.  Which if he holds the title up to WrestleMania 28, he will easily beat.
 
To pass Bob Backlund's record, Cena needs 1,031 days.  That's nearly 3 years of being the champ.
 
To pass Hulk Hogan's record (not including his WCW titles) Cena would need 1,078 days.  That would be right about 3 years.
 
But to reach Bruno Sammartino's record... Cena would need 2,932 days or just over 8 years as world champion.  
 
Cena's 35 now.  I can see him passing Hulk Hogan... but I don't think that he will hit Sammartino's number.


Posted By: MegaManXXV
Date Posted: 27/June/2011 at 06:16
Interesting numbers there ...

I definitly see Cena passing Backlund and Hogan ... no problem

But I doubt he'll reach the 2,000 + mark ...

Cena would be 43 in 8 years ... Its highly unlikely he holds the title for an absurd amount of time like that. While I don't see him retiring anytime soon, that's way 2 much Cena if you ask me ...

The people will revolt

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** Your Welcome **


Posted By: Darth Shizzel
Date Posted: 27/June/2011 at 06:18
I can see Cena becoming a 20 time champion so I guess he is the one to break Ric Flair's record but to break that many records its just not possible.
It would be good for Cena to break Hogan's record though so at least wwe have a guy who is 100% wwe to hold a record like that.


Posted By: MegaManXXV
Date Posted: 27/June/2011 at 07:16
I've always thought HHH would beat Flairs record, but I think he would need 2 or 3 more and I just don't see him getting that. Maybe he has 1 more title run in him, but I see him retiring from in ring competition in 2 or 3 years time. And who know who often he'll wrestle in that time frame ...

So I gotta agree with ya shizz ....

As much as it pains me 2 say it, Cenas going 2 be the guy who breaks that record ...

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** Your Welcome **


Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 14/July/2011 at 14:46
http://vids.wwe.com/12475/raw-john-cena-addresses-cm-punks" rel="nofollow - http://vids.wwe.com/12475/raw-john-cena-addresses-cm-punks
 
Having thought about it Cena wanting Punk reinstated to his title match could down the line be brought up in an heel Cena character.
 
He could cut a promo about how he's made millions from merchandise, won loads of titles, headlined Wrestlemania multiple times etc so they was little left to do but to be the guy who saved The E from losing a title to someone leaving.
 
He could carry on saying he beat Punk for himself not for the fans or the company.


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Posted By: MegaManXXV
Date Posted: 22/July/2011 at 08:52
%20" rel="nofollow - http://vids.wwe.com/12622/raw-mr-mcmahon-prepares-to-termi

I wish Cena would go back 2 his old music. That song was pure fire. Hopefully when he turns heel he'll go back 2 that jam. Its my shit ..

Cena was ok here. He played his part well. We all knew he wouldn't be gone anyway; he really didn't have 2 do much ...

Hopefully Cena can keep his character from being stale. He's been doing a joob job; he needs 2 keep it up ...


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** Your Welcome **


Posted By: Darth Shizzel
Date Posted: 27/July/2011 at 01:43

-- John Cena has now held the WWE Championship a record nine times following his title victory last night on Raw . The previous record holder was Triple H, who held the WWE Championship on eight occasions.

If Cena holds the belt through Thursday, he will move past Pedro Morales into fourth place as most combined days as WWE Champion at 1028.

 
Well Cena has broken 2 records now he's held the WWE title the most times and he will pass Pedro Morales and be the 4th longest reigining WWE champion ever.


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Don't hate the player hate the game


Posted By: ozwwefan
Date Posted: 27/July/2011 at 05:31
        I guess WWE figured if Orton could take Christian's title after 2 days, it was ok for Super-Cena to take Rey's in less than 2 hours. I'm not a huge fan of Mysterios, but  losing the title this fast sucked big-time.

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                             &n


Posted By: Darth Shizzel
Date Posted: 27/July/2011 at 05:41

I would rather have Super Cena as champion then Crybaby Rey as champion and besides it was needed to further the feud between Cena and Punk about who is the rightful champion.

My beef though is Cena and Rey is a match for PPV for a first time ever not used as a main event on Raw where it would never be as good as a PPV match up nor would it have the time needed as Raw gets crammed with so much stuff.


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Don't hate the player hate the game


Posted By: Kondor
Date Posted: 27/July/2011 at 09:37
Originally posted by Darth Shizzel Darth Shizzel wrote:

I would rather have Super Cena as champion then Crybaby Rey as champion and besides it was needed to further the feud between Cena and Punk about who is the rightful champion.

Believe it or not, if I had to chose between those two, I'd rather have Rey. I don't mean to be the typical Cena hater but... I am really sick of him as Champ with same moves all the time and his poorly applied wrestling holds (even though he can have a good match with the right person). And this is coming from somebody who loved Bruno being Champion for years straight. 

At least Rey would be a fresher face, even thought it can be argued his 2006 World Heavyweight Title reign was not deserved. And it wasn't. But still, he's someone who's already been a World Champion and thus is someone who's not a hard sell as a main eventer, he is a good wrestler, he can put on a good match with anybody, and he is better than some who've had the belt. 

Originally posted by Darth Shizzel Darth Shizzel wrote:

My beef though is Cena and Rey is a match for PPV for a first time ever not used as a main event on Raw where it would never be as good as a PPV match up nor would it have the time needed as Raw gets crammed with so much stuff.

It was a good wrestling match and did not seem squished for time at all. I have no problem with them throwing the occasional marquee match up on Raw or Smackdown. Everything should not revolve around pay per views. A Raw is still a wrestling card. 



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Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 27/July/2011 at 09:57
Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

Originally posted by Darth Shizzel Darth Shizzel wrote:

I would rather have Super Cena as champion then Crybaby Rey as champion and besides it was needed to further the feud between Cena and Punk about who is the rightful champion.

Believe it or not, if I had to chose between those two, I'd rather have Rey. I don't mean to be the typical Cena hater but... I am really sick of him as Champ with same moves all the time and his poorly applied wrestling holds (even though he can have a good match with the right person). And this is coming from somebody who loved Bruno being Champion for years straight. 

At least Rey would be a fresher face, even thought it can be argued his 2006 World Heavyweight Title reign was not deserved. And it wasn't. But still, he's someone who's already been a World Champion and thus is someone who's not a hard sell as a main eventer, he is a good wrestler, he can put on a good match with anybody, and he is better than some who've had the belt. 

Originally posted by Darth Shizzel Darth Shizzel wrote:

My beef though is Cena and Rey is a match for PPV for a first time ever not used as a main event on Raw where it would never be as good as a PPV match up nor would it have the time needed as Raw gets crammed with so much stuff.

It was a good wrestling match and did not seem squished for time at all. I have no problem with them throwing the occasional marquee match up on Raw or Smackdown. Everything should not revolve around pay per views. A Raw is still a wrestling card. 

 
Throwing the odd PPV-quality match into a Raw main-event doesnt hurt as long as its only done now and again, its a good way to try and spike ratings. Mysterio/Cena would be difficult to book as a feud or PPV-match due to both men being kiddys-favourites so a one-off Raw-match does make sense, the match was very good and marks a second consecutive decent outing for Cena after his blinder with CM Punk.
 
I would have preferred Rey as champ than Cena. I dont really get all the Mysterio-hate, sure his promos are a bit annoying but in the ring the guy is probably the most consistent talent on the roster, he pretty much guarantees at the very least a very watchable match when hes out there.
 
But at the same time a Cena/Punk re-match is a more fitting main-event for Summerslam. Rey/CM Punk has been over-played in recent-times and I dont want to see it again.


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Posted By: admin
Date Posted: 27/July/2011 at 21:47

http://vids.wwe.com/12694/raw-rey-mysterio-vs-john-cena-ww" rel="nofollow - http://vids.wwe.com/12694/raw-rey-mysterio-vs-john-cena-ww

Cena winning the title again is crap, but it's not going to cause more of a backlash against him than it did SuperRan winning the title quickly off Christian.

Now he's an 11 times champion but this will just be another short reign for the next couple of weeks to Summerslam i'd imagine.

It's a shame Cena who pretends to be a good man didn't put off the title match for a week so Rey could rest a bit like a fair man.



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Posted By: Willy1225
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 02:42
What Cena did on Raw goes against his entire character. He wants to fight CM Punk legit even if it means he'll lose his job for it but he'll happily face a guy who wrestled 4-5 matches in 8 days. (not counting the match with Cena)
 
Mysterio got hosed on Raw


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TNA Would Be Nothing Without #TeamDixie



Posted By: Kondor
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 02:54
Originally posted by Willy1225 Willy1225 wrote:

What Cena did on Raw goes against his entire character. He wants to fight CM Punk legit even if it means he'll lose his job for it but he'll happily face a guy who wrestled 4-5 matches in 8 days. (not counting the match with Cena)
 
Mysterio got hosed on Raw

Mysterio got hosed; but Cena's character would be willing to wrestle those same 4-5 matches in 8 days himself. I don't see it as being outside his character. 


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Posted By: ZacMan99
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 03:23
john cena had the WWE tile BUT rey is the new WWE champ\

And thank god john cena isnt fired


Posted By: Kondor
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 06:06
Originally posted by ZacMan99 ZacMan99 wrote:

And thank god john cena isnt fired

Are you a John Cena fan, Zac? 


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Posted By: Darth Shizzel
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 06:11

Nice to see John Cena's oldest fan in Zac who in his profile page says he is 74 Tongue



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Don't hate the player hate the game


Posted By: Kondor
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 06:23
I guess that would dispel the belief that only young kids like Cena. 

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Posted By: HBKDX97
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 06:33
Umm:






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Posted By: MaNonTheMoon
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 06:48
GAH!!! ITS A FULL MOON!!!

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#ThankYouTaker


Posted By: HBKDX97
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 06:56
...I see what you did there...

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Posted By: MegaManXXV
Date Posted: 28/July/2011 at 07:21
It figures Cena went over on MNR ...

Shoulda seen that comin' from the handshake backstage ...

Granted, it did set up an awesome end 2 MNR. We all kinda figured it would play this way but it still hits the senses when viewed. Truly awesome moment ...

I can't knock Cena tho; I just wish it didn't have 2 go thru Rey Rey. I mean shit, if whoever won was going 2 lose why not just give us a shock win from someone unexpected? Kinda like what they did with DB winning the MITB breifcase ...





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** Your Welcome **


Posted By: Darth Shizzel
Date Posted: 17/August/2011 at 00:16
Quote During last night's WWE RAW, Mick Foley made several posts on Twitter about John Cena. It's clear Foley is a big fan of Cena's. Here are some quotes from Foley last night:

"I really enjoyed the angry, serious tone of @johncena . Might be about time more fans started recognizing his legacy of amazing matches.

Sorry to disagree with so many of you, but go through your archives and look at how many good/great/amazing matches @johncena has had on PPV

You may not like the character, but @JohnCena is a workhorse, and hasn't been in a bad PPV (that I've seen) in a long time. He CAN wrestle!

Come on, someone find me a bad @johncena PPV. He's been a part of classic stuff with regularity for years. It's NOT just the opponents guys.

Look, I was clearly more of an @WWE fan even when I was with TNA. I just call them like I see them...and I see Cena favorably.

I really appreciate all the feedback from everyone. I'll grant you that his last Mania wasn't great, but his match with @therock will be.

Good conversation, everyone. Remember when @johncena wrestled 10 minutes with Orton AFTER tearing his pec off the bone? THAT is HEART!"

 
Angry is that what he was could've fooled me.
 
No one is denying that over the years Cena has had some good matches RVD, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, Triple H, Edge, Chris Jericho, Shawn Micheals and CM Punk can all vouch for that.
 
Yes the man can wrestle be nice if he showed it on a more consistent basis and not use the 5 moves of doom in the same order time and time again.
 
Foley kissing a lot of ass as of late 
 
Fucking oath his last match at Mania wasn't great look at the main event should've been a triple threat or something to protect Miz.
 
Foley he wrestled against Kennedy with the torn pec not Orton fuck he was working with the guy recently you'd think he would get it right.


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Don't hate the player hate the game


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 17/August/2011 at 00:19
100% agreed w/ Foley, Cena has as many great matches as the Punks and AJ Styles' of this world.

Horribly underrated guy.


Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 18/August/2011 at 13:14
It does annoy me how many fans and magazines like Powerslam constantly slate Cena for his promos and in-ring ability. For example PS made several digs at him for his peformance during his match with CM Punk at Money In The Bank, personally I thought the match was superb and currently has my vote for match of the year, if Cena's offense was sloppy at times during that match then I failed to notice.
 
I think some people spend too much time analyzing the flaws in John Cena's game rather than just trying to enjoy his matches.
 
As for his promos, yes the scripted family-friendly stuff does get annoying, but on the whole Cena is a charismatic guy who is very comfortable on the mic. I thought his mic-work at the end of Raw this week was excellent, when he drops the PG-shit and adopts a more aggressive style his promos are very good.


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Posted By: King Razor
Date Posted: 18/August/2011 at 14:21
Well said Fletch the whole Anti Cena bandwagon is so old now. Yes he was given too much too soon, but personally I think he has improved a hell of a lot!

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Welcome to my Palace of Wisdom!

You thought you knew the truth, Well let King Razor tell you the real truth!

King of the PPV GAME 2007


Posted By: The Pain Train
Date Posted: 18/August/2011 at 14:38
Hey, I'm not knocking Cena, but the end of this week's raw left me BORED TO TEARS.
 
Here comes Cena to save the day... again.


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Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 08/September/2011 at 16:40
Quote In another trivia note, if John Cena loses to Alberto Del Rio at Night of Champions, it will be the first time Cena has lost on three straight WWE pay-per-view events since the Summer of 2008 when he lost to Triple H, JBL and Batista at three straight events. This year, Cena has lost twice in a row to CM Punk at SummerSlam and Money in the Bank. 
 
Hmm.  I've seen an effort by WWE to widen their spotlight recently.  They know that they need to have more top stars.  And if they can slide Cena over a bit, they can still keep him on stand-by.  I won't be surprised if Cena loses as the whole point of ADR becoming champ was so that he could headline the Mexican tour in October.


Posted By: mikej690
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 08:25
i really think john cena is a heel but we dont know it because its funny how since cm punk's promo the nice, corny, overly popular john cena is starting to get more aggersive and the fan are hating him and booing him left and right!
 
In a way he's been acting more and more like a bully heel but he's still fighting the bad guys and i think they are fully going to turn him heel at surivor series because the rock made his debut there plus he turned heel back in 1998 to join the corporation so the samething might happen with this current angle that their doing but you never know.
 
Del rio in a way has been getting bullied by cena like when he attacked del rio out of no where after attacking rey with the armbar and he was pissed and said he's going to whip his ass. Its getting more and more clear that John Cena might be a heel at surivor series because why would the rock make an apperance there if it wouldn't be historic? Hell Bret hart was a clue that someone is going to get screwed this year and it could be punk or whoever but i feel like it might happen due to the history of that ppv.


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YES! YES! YES!


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 13:33
Very surprising, although somewhat pleasantly refreshing, views of Cena in this forum. At the moment, I am inclined to agree that Cena is burnt out. A resting period would be extremely good for him. WITH THAT SAID, I truly believe there is a huge misconception with professional wrestling and what any one performer 'should' do or 'needs' to do in their matches. Certainly in terms of my own enjoyment, less is more.

I enjoy John Cena's matches far more than Morrisons, for example, because whilst Cena does have a limited moveset, his strikes, shoulder blocks and side walk slams resonate with the audience and create an emotional response. This is what is important in professional wrestling. It's why Jerry Lawler and Bill Dundee were over twenty years ago, delivering main event matches consisting of 30 minutes of punching the other guy in the face. Even in 2011, you don't need a Jon Morrison flipping, moonsaulting around and just giving 12 minutes of STUFF, when you can have John Cena delivering less is more, narrative fueled matches. In my opinion. 

Tl;dr: Give me John Cena carrying a riled up crowd through 20 minutes of basics over John Morrison hitting a double 360 backwards moonsault corkscrew OMgZzzZ!#~. Current trends aside, the former is actually FAR more what pro wrestling is 'about' than the latter. I'd tout John Cena as one of the best wrestlers in the world right now. Maybe not quite as high as he was in 2007, but top five, certainly.


Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 14:02
Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:

Very surprising, although somewhat pleasantly refreshing, views of Cena in this forum. At the moment, I am inclined to agree that Cena is burnt out. A resting period would be extremely good for him. WITH THAT SAID, I truly believe there is a huge misconception with professional wrestling and what any one performer 'should' do or 'needs' to do in their matches. Certainly in terms of my own enjoyment, less is more.

I enjoy John Cena's matches far more than Morrisons, for example, because whilst Cena does have a limited moveset, his strikes, shoulder blocks and side walk slams resonate with the audience and create an emotional response. This is what is important in professional wrestling. It's why Jerry Lawler and Bill Dundee were over twenty years ago, delivering main event matches consisting of 30 minutes of punching the other guy in the face. Even in 2011, you don't need a Jon Morrison flipping, moonsaulting around and just giving 12 minutes of STUFF, when you can have John Cena delivering less is more, narrative fueled matches. In my opinion. 

Tl;dr: Give me John Cena carrying a riled up crowd through 20 minutes of basics over John Morrison hitting a double 360 backwards moonsault corkscrew OMgZzzZ!#~. Current trends aside, the former is actually FAR more what pro wrestling is 'about' than the latter. I'd tout John Cena as one of the best wrestlers in the world right now. Maybe not quite as high as he was in 2007, but top five, certainly.


While it may be true that the story Cena creates is more "emotive" than JoMo's, but the story is always the same:
Coming out strong coming out strong, oh no! they got the upper hand.
ahhh im gettin beat down, it hurts, i dont like it.
ah, hes irish whippeed me into teh ropes, NOTHING HURTS ANYMORE :D
flying shoulder, flying shoulder, powerslam, NOTHING HURTS ANYMORE :D
5 knuckle shuffle, AA/STFU
yaaaay, i won.


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Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 15:25
Originally posted by Trice Trice wrote:

Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:

Very surprising, although somewhat pleasantly refreshing, views of Cena in this forum. At the moment, I am inclined to agree that Cena is burnt out. A resting period would be extremely good for him. WITH THAT SAID, I truly believe there is a huge misconception with professional wrestling and what any one performer 'should' do or 'needs' to do in their matches. Certainly in terms of my own enjoyment, less is more.

I enjoy John Cena's matches far more than Morrisons, for example, because whilst Cena does have a limited moveset, his strikes, shoulder blocks and side walk slams resonate with the audience and create an emotional response. This is what is important in professional wrestling. It's why Jerry Lawler and Bill Dundee were over twenty years ago, delivering main event matches consisting of 30 minutes of punching the other guy in the face. Even in 2011, you don't need a Jon Morrison flipping, moonsaulting around and just giving 12 minutes of STUFF, when you can have John Cena delivering less is more, narrative fueled matches. In my opinion. 

Tl;dr: Give me John Cena carrying a riled up crowd through 20 minutes of basics over John Morrison hitting a double 360 backwards moonsault corkscrew OMgZzzZ!#~. Current trends aside, the former is actually FAR more what pro wrestling is 'about' than the latter. I'd tout John Cena as one of the best wrestlers in the world right now. Maybe not quite as high as he was in 2007, but top five, certainly.


While it may be true that the story Cena creates is more "emotive" than JoMo's, but the story is always the same:
Coming out strong coming out strong, oh no! they got the upper hand.
ahhh im gettin beat down, it hurts, i dont like it.
ah, hes irish whippeed me into teh ropes, NOTHING HURTS ANYMORE :D
flying shoulder, flying shoulder, powerslam, NOTHING HURTS ANYMORE :D
5 knuckle shuffle, AA/STFU
yaaaay, i won.

Is that surprising, considering his young fan-base and the way they thrive upon routine? Routine has never been that alien a concept within the game. Cena is definitely a Hogan, Warrior kind of talent, yes. I see no problem with this. The routine alone could never be a problem for me, much less when Cena skillfully implements it into different matches with different people.

And oh my, does he do it well. Cena/Umaga LMS is an example I particularly enjoy. This is better than any brawl Mick Foley ever put on, save maybe for his match with Micheals at In Your House 10, and save MAYBE for his match at Backlash 2004. Here the routines rears its head, but oh my does it shine. It was an incredible piece of storytelling, easily up there; top 5 matches of the decade material; classic David vs. Goliath, with several innovative spots, a well used blade by Cena, and some incredible character work from Umaga. The way the narrative builds momentum towards the final, clamactic sequence which sees Umaga refusing to die several times, Umaga attempting to KILL Cena like the savage he is by using the ring buckle, and Cena having to turn those tables upon Umaga in order to win, by strangling him, no less.

Forgive me for reposting thoughts I typed for another thread here yesterday, but the sentiments ring true here:

American wrestling as we know it evolved from Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant trading punches. Punches - and not much else. It evolved from Lawler and Dundee trading headlocks for half an hour. Headlocks – and not much else. I’m all for the product evolving, and certainly it should evolve, but to actively call out wrestlers on their limited move set seems an empty criticism when one factors in the reaction said performers are receiving. 

Take Mark Henry, for one, to illustrate my point, and also as there is a discussion going on at TUP regarding his skill in particular. As of now, I believe he is putting on the greatest matches and character work of his career. Yet in practically every other on the internet, he is lambasted for being ‘boring’, and ‘slow’. I argue that the average WWE internet fan, fed on a diet of TNA and ROH, have been tuned into expecting high flying, fast paced matches, which are equally as 'good', I suppose, but drastically different. Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with this – wrestling fans are, of course, free to choose which wrestling they enjoy. But when fans will actually go as far as to label this particular style of wrestling as ‘correct’, and somehow ‘true’, problems occur, much in the same way as when a fifteen year old brought up on Transformers attempts to watch Citizen Kane. Far be it from me to say this is true of all fans (quite clearly it is not), but those that do hold these views tend to be the most vocal Re. how poor the state of the WWE is. Certainly with regard to quality, my belief is ‘less is more’. 


Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 15:40
Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:



And oh my, does he do it well. Cena/Umaga LMS is an example I particularly enjoy. This is better than any brawl Mick Foley ever put on, save maybe for his match with Micheals at In Your House 10, and save MAYBE for his match at Backlash 2004. Here the routines rears its head, but oh my does it shine.

It was an incredible piece of storytelling, easily up there, top 5 matches of the decade material; classic David vs. Goliath, with several innovative spots, a well used blade by Cena, and some incredible character work from Umaga. The way the narrative builds momentum towards the final, clamactic sequence which sees Umaga refusing to die several times, Umaga attempting to KILL Cena like the savage he is by using the ring buckle, and Cena having to turn those tables upon Umaga in order to win, by strangling him, no less.


I dont deny that Cena tells teh story well, but its incredibly tiresome to see the same story week in week out, and at every PPV, no matter who the opponent is. Especialy when in the majority of matches Cena is the favourite, rendering his "spectacular comeback" fairly stupidlooking.

I understand its ok to use it on monster heels like Sheamus, Randall, Umaga, Show etc. But it doesnt make a huge deal of sense against wily heels who win by cleverness, not brawn. Miz? R-Truth, Christian?


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Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 15:44
I'd be interested, Trice, to know what you'd like to see from the guy? A few flips? Maybe a shooting star press?

I'm being pedantic, of course, but honestly- what about his current wresting performances doesn't work, putting aside your personal dislike for his in ring performances, and baring in mind the huge reaction he gets (be it positive or negative, as, clearly, any heated reaction is a good reaction as far as the company are concerned)? If I'm Vince McMahon, I'm not fixing anything that isn't broken. You can't argue with the masses. Can you? I suppose we can all try . . . Wink


Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 15:58
I dont want him to be doing moonsaults and shooting-star presses á la Lesnar, because
1) If Lesnar botched it, Cena sure as hell will
2) Cant even pull off 2 of his 6 moves properly as it is

I have no problem with Cena's promos or his gimmick, I like his "company man" persona. Prior to his Nexus fued, I was tired of his staleness, but now that he acknowledges the hate he gets, but still says he doesnt care and that he loves the company makes his gimmick not only tolerable, but better.

Its his in ring performances I want to see be better. Just because hes a face, doesnt mean his Fisherman Suplex has to be disgustingly bad. Just because hes a Hogan-esque superman, doesnt mean he cant show variation.
For example
face HBK has a clear cut routine: Atomic, chop, Atomic, chop, yada yada elbow, tune band, superkick

But he has variety. sometimes he'll do a figure 4, a crossface, a suplex, a ddt, a snapmare, a sleeper. simple moves, but they add variety.

Cena, in the past 6 years has added a dropkick.


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Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 16:11
Fair's fair. I have no problem with the way Cena's matches play out, and I think they are unfairly criticized by most. True, he shows little variety, but that seems to be his thing; implementing his stock routine of move into different situations within his matches. I, for one, enjoy it, and feel that, again, Cena's emotive resonance more than makes up for it. The 'less is more' rings true, for me.

Cena's ring work is exemplary. In my eyes, he runs rings around someone such as Daniel Bryan, or Danielson, if anyone would care to prefer..


Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 16:38
Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:

Cena's ring work is exemplary. In my eyes, he runs rings around someone such as Daniel Bryan, or Danielson, if anyone would care to prefer..


Oh really.

This is a real perfect fisherman suplex.


This is whatever Cena is doing, and Cole calling it nice. Its just a normal suplex where Cena touches Miz's leg.



This is an STF

Note how the Japanese fella locks the face of D Bryan

This is the STF(U)

Note how Cena doesnt actually do a facelock, rather a chinlock.

And its not like he doesnt know other moves, check this out.


Incidentally with 2 5KS and 2 AA, thats really only 18 moves, but still.


That Vertical at #12 is a thing of beauty. His Fisherman Neckbreaker has the actual fisherman ness it should do.










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Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 17:22

I could name four or five matches from the Golden Era of All Japan Pro Wrestling that could potentially be the four or five best matches I've ever seen, and yet none of them have the smooth execution of a Christopher Daniels match. In short, execution isn't everything; sometimes other stuff matters just a bit more.

This has been in vogue for years: wrestling fans storm into discussion boards, claiming that John Cena sucks because he doesn't apply the STFU correctly, or has a shitty fisherman's suplex. I will be the first to admit: John Cena is certainly no Bret Hart when it comes to execution, nor are his spots as smooth as Christopher Daniels', but just watch a few important moments in his matches; the times where he truly resonates. Of the two fiserman's suplex clips you posted above, for example, I would point to Cena's as the better - sure, it is not perfect in its execution, but doesn't it just have more soul?

Here, I speak of Danielson's time in ROH. Just because this man (who is truly a great wrestler) can counter a wristlock in twelve different ways, this does not make his performances any better than John Cena's. In fact, their matches have a great deal in common: (1) an interest in modifying the speeds and slownesses of offense and counters, (2) an interest in giving fans a complete display of their move set (Danielson actually does this to a fault, I believe), (3) an interest in the occasional comedy spot, (4) an interest in balancing on a razor's edge between 'good guy' and 'bad guy', and (5) an interest in doing what's best for the match itself, for modifying a match when it needs to be changed 'on the fly'.

A false dichotomy, then, has been constructed between these two wrestlers and the two 'styles' or 'brands' that many fans associate with them. I certainly do not think that they work identical matches, but I think if we refuse a word like 'work-rate' or other magical categories that try to keep them separate, it might be interesting to see (1) how very similar the two wrestlers are and (2) how John Cena might actually be the better of the two.




Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 19:06
So essentially, you are saying that as Cena has more "soul" in his moves and his 5 MOD can be applied in all of his matches, regardless of opponent, he is a better ring worker than Daniels or Danielson?

Its much like the film Avatar. While it has visual beauty, the plot is piss-poor and entirely predictable. Sure a lot of people go to see it and it drew a lot of money, but that doesnt make it a good film.
Lots of people go to see Cena and he draws a lot of money, but hes not a good wrestler. Hes a good entertainer.

I would much rather watch a well acted film with plot twists and unpredictability, rather than a shit film which i can guess the plot of. This is why i have DVDs of the Inside Man and not Transformers.



and how are you quantifying "soul" ?
I think Hennig's fisherman looks better, because hes doing it properly. Much the same reason I prefer watching Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo play football, than Emile Heskey


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Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 20:02
You keep repeating that 'Cena just isn't a good wrestler', without acknowledging the fundamentals of my points, and, perhaps more importantly, the way I see the product. We are clearly on opposite ends of the spectrum. Meet me half way to debate. Not agreeing is fine, but not acknowledging? Did you read my entire post? I mentioned soul once, but as for the conclusion of my many points, it doesn't factor in at all. Due to this, your last post, and many of the points within, are misplaced. 'I think Hennig's fisherman looks better, because hes doing it properly', you say. I say: there is no 'properly'. 


Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 20:23
Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:

You keep repeating that 'Cena just isn't a good wrestler', without acknowledging the fundamentals of my points, and, perhaps more importantly, the way I see the product. We are clearly on opposite ends of the spectrum. Meet me half way to debate. Not agreeing is fine, but not acknowledging? Did you read my entire post? I mentioned soul once, but as for the conclusion of my many points, it doesn't factor in at all. Due to this, your last post, and many of the points within, are misplaced. 'I think Hennig's fisherman looks better, because hes doing it properly', you say. I say: there is no 'properly'. 


I read it all, and im clearly meeting you half way because as I said in earlier posts, I agree that his gimmick is entertaining (now). I completely disagree that his in ring work is in anyway "exemplary".
I did meet you half way, by providing a video of him doing moves well, ones he could incorporate into his current moveset, even picking out ones that were done perfectly.

To say there is no "proper" way of doing a fisherman isnt a matter of opinion. It is not something to meet someone half way on. It is not a fluid state of being. A Fisherman suplex isnt a fist drop. Cena's 5KS is a fist drop, there are many different ways to do it depending on your style, Ted Dibiase's falling fist drop is an example of another method.

A Fisherman suplex requires the person to cradle the leg, and do a suplex. Cena does not cradle the leg, therefore it is not a fisherman suplex. Now I would agree if he were to give it some name that disguises it not being performed correctly(such as he does with the "Throwback") your argument would have some validity. But he straight up does it wrong. To call it a fisherman suplex is like calling the Protobomb a legdrop. It just isnt.

You state that I dont acknowledge the fundamentals of your argument or the way you see the product, when clearly I do. I would counter to suggest the issue is that you are confusing how you view the product with the technical aspects of wrestling.

I'm not denying Cena is bad for the product. Im not denying he is entertaining. I'm not even denying his "fisherman suplex" is more "emotive" than an actual fisherman (because im meeting you halfway).
I am denying however, that his fisherman suplex is actually a fisherman suplex. And I am denying any suggestion that his limited moveset is better wrestling than guys like Daniels and Danielson


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Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: Willy1225
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 22:09
Allow me to throw in my two cents on Cena's "Workrate" if I may Trice and CBW:
 
John Cena is a solid wrestler and thats the best he'll be because he doesnt do any jaw-dropping moves anymore (we know he can lift heavy guys up on his shoulders). He knows a fair amount of moves, he can sell moves (when they are hit not when he is staging his super comeback) and he doesnt botch things. All in all he is a solid passable wrestler who can be carried to a really good match or dare I say a great match. We have seen that as in 6 years as "The Man" he has only had great matches with Y2J, HBK, Edge, Kurt Angle, CM Punk and Batista. You can throw in Umaga if you like but I never really cared for those matches that much. Only 6-7 wrestlers have had good matches with John Cena in SIX years means we have seen a whole lot of ** run of the mill Cena matches.
 
So when Cena is in there with a great worker, Cena delivers a good performance. Probably because those guys snap Cena out of his usual routine which Trice explained so elegantly. Thats another problem with Cena because if you have seen one Cena match, you have seen them all outside of matches he has with the 6 or 7 guys I mentioned.
 
Another thing with Cena is that he wrestles EVERY SINGLE WEEK on Raw and like I said Cena wrestles the same type of match. So we are seeing Cena do the same thing every single week TIME AND TIME AGAIN and it gets to the point of wanting to change the channel.
What also hurts John is when the announce team loses their shit when Cena hits a decent looking dropkick. I mean that was a joke when he learned how to do a dropkick, Cole and King kept saying over and over about how Cena has added a new wrinkle to his offense. Adding a decent dropkick should not get that over the top reaction. Plus, Lawler's kissing of Cena's ass every week is nauseating and makes me dislike Cena more.


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TNA Would Be Nothing Without #TeamDixie



Posted By: Darth Shizzel
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 22:17
I think Cena has been a great performer but in more recent years in the ring he gets lazy even selling stuff like 2 years back in the I quit match he was asked to quit no emotion no nothing just a plain old no and Orton was beating the ever loving Shit out of him, even back when he was having those great matches I believe Shawn Micheals had the shits with Cena because he wasn't selling properly during the match and it was obvious.

I don't question the guys work rate he's at the top for a reason but its wrestling I see a problem with and its something needs to get better use a belly to belly a DDT something different to get things rolling.

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Don't hate the player hate the game


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 13/September/2011 at 23:43
I am aware of how precise many of the matches involving Low Ki and/or Christopher Daniels are, i.e. how smooth and flawless and pretty the counters and suplexes and chops can be, but one only has to cast their gaze towards All Japan Pro Wrestling to understand that execution and quality are exclusive and can, in some instances, even become binary opposition. I have positively wallowed in much of the sloppy wrestling viewed over the years. Many of the slams and suplexes in AJPW looked downright sloppy . . . it is the passion which pulls them through. I suppose then, that you are very much correct, Trice, in your claims of the 'incorrect German suplex'. I can only offer the fact that I feel it is far less important; the reaction, for me, is how I evaluate the positives and negatives of the outcome. You mention that I may be confusing how one should view the product with the technical aspects of wrestling, but truly, for me, my grasp of said technical aspects of wrestling are entirely governed by the way I watch the product.

Elsewhere, and of course, Willy, you are entirely correct in your descriptions of the routine we are faced with every week on RAW; clearly, this is the product's output. Surely you are aware that his character is aimed at fans younger than you, though, and corollary, surely you don't believe that John Cena is bad at what he does because YOU find his matches repetitive? Because ten million routine-craving kids on a sugar rush of colour would disagree with you there, and like it or not, it is their opinion that matters, surely? This is not to cast negativity on your own opinion; I would never do that, and, of course, yours is every bit as true as theirs, but we mustn't mistake this dislike of the product's output for said output being actively 'bad', surely? Of course, you at no point mentioned, or even alluded to the fact that you thought Cena was 'bad', I alluded myself - and may be barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. Embarrassed

Through all of these posts, one comment, at least for me, rings true: Any strong reaction is a good reaction.



Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 14/September/2011 at 00:12
Kids have barney the dinosaur for mindless, colourful repetition. Theres no need for Cena to be as formulaic as that.

Its not even like Sesame St. Sesame st at least has a different letter and number each week.

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Mr Quality over Quantity 2010 |~| Mr Variety 2011


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 14/September/2011 at 00:41
Originally posted by Trice Trice wrote:

Kids have barney the dinosaur for mindless, colourful repetition. Theres no need for Cena to be as formulaic as that.

Yes there is - to appeal to his target audience. 


Posted By: Darth Shizzel
Date Posted: 14/September/2011 at 12:33
Originally posted by Trice Trice wrote:

Kids have barney the dinosaur for mindless, colourful repetition. Theres no need for Cena to be as formulaic as that.

Its not even like Sesame St. Sesame st at least has a different letter and number each week.
 
Now they have Mr Fruity Pebbles now.


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Don't hate the player hate the game


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 26/October/2011 at 18:03
Driving me nuts this week: seeing the words: 'turn him heel' posted and re-posted across the internet.

If there's nothing of real substance to gain from making the turn, then they shouldn't do it. Older fans will likely cheer for him and kids will boo for him. So essentailly, you're back at square one, with a show built for him, only not revolving around him anymore. The last time the WWE dumbed down to the 'turn this guy heel because he's boring' stuff was in 2001 when they turned Austin. I think you could argue that they still haven't quite recovered. 

Cena's really, really, really good. Not everyone's cup of tea as a character for sure - but far from the outlier he's pushed as. He's really a hybrid Dusty Rhodes/Tommy Rich with a little grain sprinkled on to try and make him a little more wholesome. 


Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 26/October/2011 at 18:35
I think a short term heel turn for Cena could be a great thing for business, it would freshen his stale character and be the most interesting angle WWE have done in years, it would be comparable to the Hogan heel turn years ago.

WWE have a new merchandise machine in CM Punk and The Rock shifts truckloads when he's about, so now would be a good time to do it.

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Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 26/October/2011 at 19:31
Still don't get the reasoning there, Fletch. I don't think he's stale in the slightest. Each to their own, of course.


Posted By: thundarr2000
Date Posted: 26/October/2011 at 20:05
Why does everyone think that heels can't sell T-shirts?  When the original nWo broke thru, they were clear cut heels.  Yet they quickly sold a ton of shirts.  Austin, the Rock and DX all sold merchandise when they were heels as well.
 
I think that something should be done differently with John Cena.  I don't know if he needs a full heel turn.  But look at him recently.  He never cut a promo on Alberto Del Rio heading into Vengeance where he expressed any anger or passion.  He never said that he was mad about how he lost the title.  He never said how much the title and being the champion meant to him.  In short, he went into a PPV acting rather indifferent.
 
Cena needs to add some passion to his character.  He needs some of that spark he had when he was having exchanges with the Rock.  I didn't care for the juvenille "poop" jokes or the homophobic comments.  But Cena had passion to his promos.  He acted like he believed in what he was saying.


Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 26/October/2011 at 20:14
It would be interesting if they gave him free reign as some kind of tweener of the Rock match at Mania. He's going to get booed out of the building by everyone bar the kids for the match anyway, so they may aswell play on it for a few months, and let him do his worst on the mic, as they're allowing with CM Punk.

Some of Cena's work as the heel Dr of Thuganomics was brilliant, and arguably is what turned him face due to the reactions he was getting. I'm not saying go back to that kind of gimmick, just let him do his own work and let him make most of having Rocky in the other corner.


Posted By: John The Baptist
Date Posted: 26/October/2011 at 20:37
Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:

Driving me nuts this week: seeing the words: 'turn him heel' posted and re-opsted across the internet.


You must be new to the IWC, because thats been ever present for years.

Solution to every problem in wrestling is either turn Cena heel or fire Vince Russo.



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Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 26/October/2011 at 21:19
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:

Driving me nuts this week: seeing the words: 'turn him heel' posted and re-opsted across the internet.


You must be new to the IWC, because thats been ever present for years.

Solution to every problem in wrestling is either turn Cena heel or fire Vince Russo.


I've been here since 1996, when the solution to everything was 'turn HBK heel'. Honestly, it's the same thing. Exactly the same. Guy booked as the number one guy, caters to the young audience. Backlash occurs.

Cena is fine as he is. Never understood any of the hatred against the guy. In twenty years, his period at the top will be looked at with fondness.


Posted By: Kondor
Date Posted: 27/October/2011 at 07:21
Right now some people hate John Cena and love people would love him. But he sells merchandise so, while yes as Thundarr pointed out the right kind of heel can still sell merchandise at times (all the examples he mentioned were really tweeners, the nWo in 1996 is a notable exception), but a face can sell more merchandise. 

But as Fletch and I said in the actual thread about it, and as Fletch said here; if they turn Cena heel it will refresh his character. Those who are sick of him will see a new side of him; and his loyal fans will like him no matter what. Cena is at that point where he'll have a loyal legion of fans that will always support him no matter of he's a face or a heel. But the storyline will give more people a reason to watch; thus increasing ratings. 

Then shortly thereafter, they can turn Cena face again; and, as with Hulk Hogan's return as a face in 2002, people will begin to see him as an all time great, he will have a new surge of popularity, and have more fans than ever. 

Thus a heel turn (which may really in the end be a tweener turn), will do Cena and the WWE good.    




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Posted By: NFaMouZ
Date Posted: 27/October/2011 at 08:32
I hate Cena but yes a heel turn would make me interested in watching it. It doesnt matter who the top face in the company is little kids are still going to buy their marchandise


Posted By: CBW
Date Posted: 28/October/2011 at 00:01
It's fine for you to think that a Cena heel turn would make for fresh viewing . . . certainly it would be a cool, interesting angle, but honestly, how people can seriously think it actually makes an iota of sense to turn him now from a company perspective is mind-blowing. His merchandise sales amount to more than the 2nd, 3rd and 4th guys on the roster combined, he's still the hottest commodity in the WWE.

Personal opinions aside (I really, really like the guy), and, of course, discounting those who would like to see a heel turn for reasons of pure enjoyment (freshening up his character, etc) is fine. I get that. Totally get it. What I don't get are the flat out deluded claims that a Cena heel turn would make sense in a financial and/or creative capacity. There's none of that around here, of course. Just an observation. 


Posted By: NFaMouZ
Date Posted: 28/October/2011 at 00:31
His sales will once again most likely go back to normal after he turns back face i mean comon hes John Cena the company revoves around him ever since Mania 21 his name was circled as "the guy" to carry the company on his back (i think there was at least 5 far better choices but anyway). The curiosity of a Cena heel turn is all around that no one has been this over. The fear i guess WWE have in a) who becomes the face of RAW while hes heel (Punk/ Orton would be the only people WWE would even dream of putting there) and b) The haters towards John Cena most of them still watch WWE weekly even though they hate Cena (me included) the question is it really worth risking the kids turning there back on the business just for haters like me to find another reason to hate Cena (trust me we will). I mean the whole viewing audience wont rise long term if a Cena heel turn occurs but it can potentially go down



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