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Rico Len View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/November/2017 at 19:03
No question you're a smart one. :)

Now, as a bonus round, a new set just because I want to see the fan/mark side of you. ;)

What was the first match you saw that made you really decide you loved wrestling?

What is the biggest markout moment you saw happen as it happened (either in live attendance or on TV/PPV the night of/morning after)?

What was the biggest markout moment for you that you saw far after the fact (at least 6 months or more after it happened)?

What PPV/TV episode had you the most amped up after it was over so that you obsessed in your head about what might happen and what you wanted to see happen next? And what did you want to see happen next?

Which wrestling death bothered you personally, the most?


Edited by Rico Len - 25/November/2017 at 19:04
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Tom Colohue View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/November/2017 at 21:18
Originally posted by Rico Len Rico Len wrote:

No question you're a smart one. :)

Now, as a bonus round, a new set just because I want to see the fan/mark side of you. ;)

What was the first match you saw that made you really decide you loved wrestling?

What is the biggest markout moment you saw happen as it happened (either in live attendance or on TV/PPV the night of/morning after)?

What was the biggest markout moment for you that you saw far after the fact (at least 6 months or more after it happened)?

What PPV/TV episode had you the most amped up after it was over so that you obsessed in your head about what might happen and what you wanted to see happen next? And what did you want to see happen next?

Which wrestling death bothered you personally, the most?

Aforementioned ladder match, really, though I think it's a combination of the whole event. Hair vs hair, dumpster tag and all. Pretty sure Sable and Edge took on Mero and Jacqueline too. Weird show.

Biggest markout moment there's absolutely no question. I genuinely cried my eyes out at the close of last Wrestlemania when it became very clear that the Undertaker was retiring. The last true immortal. The last bastion of my childhood self. That hurt.

After it happened was Money in the Bank 2011. I came back to wrestling in 2015 and essentially missed 14 years before that. Big Punk fan. I knew exactly what I was getting but actually sitting and watching it was a completely different thing.

Excited about what happened next? As a kid back in the day it was Triple H's heel turn at Wrestlemania 15, or when Triple H married Stephanie against her will. Essentially everything Triple H varied. Recently? Lesnar-Goldberg at Survivor Series. I watched that match with my mouth wide open.

Last one is also a bit difficult. Of the wrestler deaths I'm aware of it's only really Owen Hart that I was there for. Had I been there at the time I know that I would have been most strongly effected by Chris Benoit though. Despite knowing now what he did I was a huge Benoit fan. An insane degree. Benoit vs Jericho was over on me huge because I despised Jericho. Literally hated every second he was on screen, face or heel. I was a bit older and more personally invested in Benoit. Add that to everything that came after, and I know how much it would have broken my heart to see his reaction after Guerrero died, that would definitely have hurt my soul a little.
Tom Colohue - Wrestling Journalist (PWTorch)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/November/2017 at 01:32
That's funny, you and I were almost exact opposites back in Triple H's heyday. I hated everything to do with him, heel or baby, it didn't matter I hated him just the same. I bought into all the hater hype, particularly the coattail riding, sleeping with the bosses daughter just for the sake of his career, etc. It took MANY (too many) years before I really reassessed him and realized I had judged him unfairly, and even to this very day I don't see him in a very favorable light.

However as the EVP in charge of talent and creative, and his desire to see his signings succeed, he has done things in recent years that have really made me appreciate him more than ever before. His ability to produce good characters in NXT especially is something I respect.

It was a Triple H segment that made me turn off WWE programming back in 2005 and not watch again until Bret Hart returned to Raw in 2010.

I hated DX, and was a huge WCW fan during the Monday Night Wars, I hated 2-man power trip, I hated his involvement in the high profile losses of WCW stars from Kevin Nash, to Goldberg, to Booker T, and even Sting. There is really just no part of seeing Triple H wrestle and win that I ever have enjoyed, with the only exception being this Survivor Series.

That said, I know I'm in the vast minority, and hold no ill-will to those that do love Trips. I guess I've been mostly counter culture in wrestling since the 80's. I liked Savage and didn't like Warrior or Hogan. I liked Bret Hart, and hated Shawn. I LOVED WCW and hated the WWF. I loved the zombie Undertaker but hated the AE Taker with that f@ggy little tear drop under his eye. For ages, I liked everything nWo to a fault. I never really enjoyed Stone Cold until long after he had retired. I still think of DDP as the real People's Champ, though I do love The Rock. Point being, I'm used to most people liking things completely opposite of what I like, however I take comfort knowing that there's a not insignificant group of fans that think as I do on any issue, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/November/2017 at 10:59
I didn't watch WCW so I bought into the WWF narrative by a large. Now, I wasn't a fan of Austin because, essentially, I felt he got too much airtime and did too little with it ahead of what I felt were more deserving people (Triple H, Kane, I was very much into Kane and X-Pac)

So when I saw Triple H screwing over the boss, they'd already established that doing that made Austin cool so it clearly made Triple H even cooler. Given that I already loved the guy it made sense to me.

You mention Hart vs Michaels and that's an interesting one. It really speaks to how I am as a person that I have no idea who I would support in their situation. The match I go back and watch the most is their Iron Man match because I adored both men equally.

I would never choose between and yet they're absolute polar opposites.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/November/2017 at 17:59
Yah, see I grew up in the Hogan, Savage, Warrior era. My first ppv was WM3, and I was 8 years old. My older brothers and their friends got the PPV and we're all raving about Savage vs Steamboat before the event even started so when the match came on, they let me stay in the same room with them so long as I sat still and didn't make a sound, and I did. I watched the match quietly and also watched the guys around me go nuts for it.

Even then these guys knew that "wrestling is fake" and told me so when I asked why they liked Savage and not Steamboat since Savage was clearly a total jerk and deserved to lose the title. They said he was the best because he was smarter and funnier than Steamboat and since wrestling is fake anyways, why not cheer for the bad guy if he is clearly so much better? Well how was I to argue with that at 8 years old?

So I grew to love Savage, and everyone from that era. I learned really you to like bad guys if they were good at being bad guys, even though it would be many many more years before I really came to understand what "wrestling is fake" actually meant.

In the mid-90s I got bored with wrestling. I'd tune in once in a while and see Double J, 1,2,3 Kids, Bob Sparkplug Holly, Men on a Mission, Steve Kierns Doink, Duke the Dumpster Drose, and yes, even The Ringmaster, The Connecticut Blueblood Hunter Hearst Helmsley, and Issac Yankem DDS.

I hated them all.

By this time I was well into high school, just finishing up my junior year, and I came home one day turned on the TV and saw something that got me back into wrestling like never before. I live on the west coast, and we got an east coast feed of TBS, so before Raw was supposed to be on at 9, I saw Razor Ramon and Diesel, in a recap of what had earlier in the show, powerbombing some commentator guy (Bischoff) through a table. And there, talking about it we're guys I grew up with loving, Bobby Heenan and Mean Gene Okerlund. So I sat transfixed, watching as guy after guy after guy from my childhood came out to wrestle, using names I didn't recognize, kick the asses of guys I'd heard of but had never seen before. Big Bossman, now called Big Bubba, Earthquake, now called the Shark or some such thing, Irwin R. Shyster now called Mr. Wall Street, and the list went on. I remembered the Steiner Brothers from their time in WWE, I'd heard of Harlem Heat but never seen them before. I saw Lex Luger (The OG Roman Reigns/John Cena). I saw Sting, Ric Flair.

This was imediately better than anything I was seeing in the late pre attitude, new generation era of the WWF. What I was seeing was WCW, a name I was familiar with, but had only seen once or twice. And then I saw him, Macho Man Randy Savage was in WCW! That was it, game, set and match, fuck the WWF, I was a WCW fan from that day until I started dating the girl who would be my wife (coincidentally in late-99).

The comparison between the two companies, as I saw them in early 96, was so drastic I never gave the WWF another chance until after I was married and we had bought a house together and I heard that WCW had gone out of business, but that Vince was bringing back the nWo.

That was when I finally started watching the WWF again. And it wasn't until a couple years later when YouTube started getting big, that I finally started going back and watching the attitude era stuff and gave it a fair chance.

I went to Nitro Parties at college, and like at home, we got an east coast feed so we watched Nitro, then Raw back to back, but by the time Raw came around most people were burned out on wrestling and didn't give it the same chance. And then when I did see Raw I still saw those same boring wrestlers from before repackaged as someone else and "ooooh look! They're trying to be cool like the nWo and Ravens Flock! Wannabes!"

It wasn't until I was watching really pixelated YouTube uploads of raw and SmackDown that I realized how prejudiced I was being and that they actually had a lot of good things going for them.

So without the influence of everyone around me going nuts for this guy or the other, without any rose colored glasses, I gave everyone an honest chance to win me over. Triple H still didn't. But Austin did. HBK did not. Mick Foley I already liked, but now loved. Undertaker went down in my estimation. Kurt Angle and The Rock blew my damned mind. Jericho really impressed me. Kane won me over. Big Show won me over. Vince screwed Bret ( I was embarrassingly STILL a couple years from really truly understanding what it meant when people said "wrestling is fake" seriously I had almost everything put together except that I didn't know it was scripted television /facepalm).

It was a rather unique path I took to get acquainted with wwfs attitude era and the stars that made it big back then, and I was filled with a bunch of negative preconceptions about that time period and the people that "unfairly" put WCW out of business. But I think nowadays, now that I have a much better grasp of how the business works and I've spent the last 10 years just studying the real story of wrestling, I feel like I've got a more objective perspective than those "kids" that once upon a time I used to hate and turn my nose up at that I still call the "Attitude era ONLY" fans.

It seemed like for a long time I had a hard time differentiating between real fans that love the business who were brought up on the attitude era like you, and fans that watched wrestling not at all before or after, and complain nonstop that wrestling should be like it was during the attitude era.

In fact, if was my difference in perspective and wrestling upbringing that led me to this place here. I'd been to.much larger sites like WrestleZone, but after a few months of getting in trouble for causing trouble with people who would I call out for presenting their opinions as objective fact, I was eventually banned and I was happy to go. So I just talked with people on youtube, and it was when I was presenting an argument of why CM Punk would likely have been just as big of a star as Stone Cold were Punk around during the Attitude Era that Adders found me and recruited me to this site.

I've called this forum home ever since. People here aren't knobs. We all have a difference of opinion, but we are open minded, discuss things intelligently, and maturely, but still have fun with what-ifs. It seems like a lot of people grow up, and forget that it is the fantasy booking of current storylines that we all really loved most as kids.

So anyway, long post, sorry about that, but have fun here and enjoy. It sounds like you'll be a very good addition to the forum. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/November/2017 at 20:47
Huge post but I've read it all and can share a similar story.

I watched from August 1998 until the Invasion PPV in 2001, when a combination of 2 things made me stop. First; we were moving across the country. I could have still had access via a cousin over here but after Triple H's injury and the absence of The Rock my interest took a big hit. Chris Benoit then also got injured and it became clear that it was Jericho and Austin who were going to be getting the most airtime for the forseeable future. Undertaker was in his American Badass phase, I was done.

I didn't know anything about WCW at all until about 2010, when I very randomly found an old cache of Attitude Era RAW VHS tapes that we had. We used to tape them all. The tapes were old and they cut out at a certain point during the D-Lo Brown vs Mark Henry feud after Summerslam '99. I googled what I'd last seen and something came up:

http://rspw.org/petrie/

Now what that is is a notepad newsletter that somebody made comparing WCW Nitro to WWF Raw from 1995 up until WCW was bought out. As it happened means that you get a lot of information about the wider landscape while reading it, including direct comparisons of how one event on one show shaped another on the other. It starts bare basic but just gets bigger and bigger.

I learned about WCW at the time and that sort of holistic business before federation approach shaped how I look at things.

Then when I got a PS4 and good quality internet in 2015 I got the network and the rest is history. 

I have no idea why I was invited here, as of yet, but I'm liking the sense of community so far. Let's see what we can do from here, shall we?
Tom Colohue - Wrestling Journalist (PWTorch)
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