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Daniel Bryan in WWE

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John The Baptist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2017 at 08:23
Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

If Global Force Wrestling could grab a handful of top talents not being utilised properly in WWE along with a few top free agents they could have a shot of actually becoming competition.

Just as a talking point let's say GFW sign Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Dolph Ziggler, Cesaro, Hideo Itami, the Ascension, Shelton Benjamin, Jack Swagger, Ryback, Wade Barrett, RVD, Sin Cara, Rey Mysterio, Johnny Mundo, MVP and Carlito, all of whom are within the realms of possibility that would give them quite a roster and would certainly convince me to tune in again.



Everyone thought this when TNA signed Sting.

Then when they signed Christian.

Then when they signed Kurt Angle....and the nWo, and Hogan and the Hardys and the Dudleys and Lashley, MVP and RVD and half the ECW roster.

Signing a bunch of names is never the issue for WWE's competition down the years, the problem has always been the writing, not the ratings.

We are in an era where people have never been more aware of indy wrestling, the WWE crowd is smark-centric and give guys like Nakamura a huge pop on his debut, whereas this time 10 years ago people would be sitting on their hands with haystacks rolling past.

Whatculture and Evolve are getting 2k crowds each show, NJPW just came off their biggest grossing period in their history. None of these outfits have box-office names, but coherent storylines and good wrestling.

The tide has changed now, I don't like it and have been very vocal about my distaste with the indification of mainstream wrestling, but thats what the people in majority want now. Shows with athletic, long matches, no humour or drama in segments and an overall very bland show.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2017 at 09:22
Originally posted by John The Baptist John The Baptist wrote:

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

If Global Force Wrestling could grab a handful of top talents not being utilised properly in WWE along with a few top free agents they could have a shot of actually becoming competition.

Just as a talking point let's say GFW sign Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Dolph Ziggler, Cesaro, Hideo Itami, the Ascension, Shelton Benjamin, Jack Swagger, Ryback, Wade Barrett, RVD, Sin Cara, Rey Mysterio, Johnny Mundo, MVP and Carlito, all of whom are within the realms of possibility that would give them quite a roster and would certainly convince me to tune in again.



Everyone thought this when TNA signed Sting.

Then when they signed Christian.

Then when they signed Kurt Angle....and the nWo, and Hogan and the Hardys and the Dudleys and Lashley, MVP and RVD and half the ECW roster.

Signing a bunch of names is never the issue for WWE's competition down the years, the problem has always been the writing, not the ratings.

We are in an era where people have never been more aware of indy wrestling, the WWE crowd is smark-centric and give guys like Nakamura a huge pop on his debut, whereas this time 10 years ago people would be sitting on their hands with haystacks rolling past.

Whatculture and Evolve are getting 2k crowds each show, NJPW just came off their biggest grossing period in their history. None of these outfits have box-office names, but coherent storylines and good wrestling.

The tide has changed now, I don't like it and have been very vocal about my distaste with the indification of mainstream wrestling, but thats what the people in majority want now. Shows with athletic, long matches, no humour or drama in segments and an overall very bland show.




You're right and this is why I am also very jaded with wrestling and only really tune in for the big matches like the recent Joe vs Lesnar, but even Brock is losing my interest as seems he can only be bothered to do 5-10 minute matches now.

While I get what you're saying I do think that if GFW could grab Punk and Bryan you'd have two game changers because both men have such a strong smark following, admittedly the buzz could be short lived and it would be down to the writers to make sure there is a good product to keep the fans gripped. If they could get these two then back them up with a handful of other smark favourites not being well used by WWE, guys like Ziggler, Cesaro, Hero, Itami, Zayn etc then things could get interesting. GFW have the advantage of not being restricted by a PG rating and corporate sponsors so they can put on a more edgy less bland product, I mean if WWE combined their current talent roster with a Attitude Era style it would be something special but the watered down PG crap means we get the boring safe predictable stuff each week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2017 at 16:55
Punk and Bryan could turn a few peoples heads within the wrestling community, not sure anything is gonna bring back fans our age, they've been lost.

Personally I don't think theres room for another promotion even half the size of the WWE at the moment. There's just simply not the talent pool there to support it, with WWE having swallowed most the top indy guys.

GFW is a clunky, awkward name too. Gonna be hard to market that company to the massess, doubly because they are a #2 promotion in the same format and likeness of the clear #1, with no seperate identity in the way ECW or Lucha Underground have. To put it simply, theres no unique selling point to watch. Not convinced by a Jeff Jarrett run creative team either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2017 at 17:23
The PG era means nothing. The truly crippling problem for smaller companies is a combination of name value and writing. JTB is 100% correct about "Signing a bunch of names is never the issue for WWE's competition down the years, the problem has always been the writing, not the ratings." That's why I am shying away from saying Global Force Wrestling, and not RoH. RoH gets buzz with a lot of their storylines, particularly when it involves the Bullet Club. GFW/TNA only gets buzz when they make another shocking business move or if things turn even more shittier (that applies more the to Dixie Carter era). 

However, name value is a legitimate concern, especially for smaller companies. No matter how good your company is even the WWE benefits from signing a new wrestler with a name people recognize. This comes down to the opportunity to create new storylines. 

Ultimately bad money practices are what is going to KILL a company but as for what builds one up? That's not so easy. WCW built themselves up in a matter of a couple of years to the biggest thing in the pro-wrestling world, and it wasn't nearly so much "Ted Turner's money" that did the job, though that certainly helped immensely, it was the fact that they storyline of Hulk Hogan turning heel, and starting a kayfabe war of WWF (represented by the nWo) vs WCW that people went nuts for.

As much as I hate to see storylines recycled, the barebones concept behind the nWo invasion would work incredibly well even today. Just for the sake of argument, let's continue with the idea that CM Punk would return (nothing but the perfect storm of events with RoH, not GFW would ever have a chance because Punk still speaks highly of RoH and has bashed TNA repeatedly) but let's go with it. Let's say that Daniel Bryan and CM Punk and Dolph Ziggler were to go to RoH. RoH has better than a decade of solid booking, strong business practices, yes a couple of scandals too, but nothing compared to TNA. It's got a few guys Bryan and Punk have spoken highly of, but most of all, Punk, Bryan and Ziggler, were all primed and ready 5 years ago to stand out as the faces of pro-wrestling for this decade. Instead no one at all has stood up thanks to the crapping out of Ziggler, the injury to Bryan, and the unwillingness to put up with bullshit from Punk. If RoH were to put those 3 together in relatively short order (say 1-3 months time tops) the buzz would be so huge off that alone that people would be tuning in just to give it a shot. What would really have to grab them though is a storyline that demanded their attention, and all but tie them to the chair in front of the TV screen to keep them coming back. What can possibly do that except a new nWo-like storyline?

If those three debuted on the same night together essentially saying "fuck WWE, I'm here because RoH is the best company in the world with the best competition" fans would laugh at them for such an old cliché story that's obviously not true. If however they said "fuck THIS company, we're better than you, quit pretending you're worthy, because we're about to run roughshod over everyone" That's a damned lot better. However, TBH I think smarks might get sick of that too. 

So what if instead they said something more along the lines of: "We're sick of the way wrestling is treated these days. We're sick of the WWE's stagnation, they basically are the place where the best wrestlers go to die like lambs to the slaughter, never realizing that's what they're doing, but this stupid indie fed is never going to amount to anything either. Unless we change it. You won't do it otherwise you would have done it by now, so the 3 of us will affect change whether you like it or not."

This maintains many of the same elements that made the nWo popular with an us vs them storyline, but also buries the WWE, which is what fans watching non-WWE wrestling want to see, but most importantly it creates a storyline that announces to the world that these big name stars with famous grievances against the WWE are going to change everything about the way that Ring of Honor works going forward, and that for the foreseeable future everything about Ring of Honor is going to be changed. You've told people that this is a process that isn't going to just happen overnight, but take time

Now, the point here is that even if you get good, big-name stars signed, it is the storyline that's going to matter most to draw a bigger crowd and to affect ratings. Last time I stopped wrestling, what brought me back was the news that Hulk Hogan was going to debut on Monday Night opposite Raw, AND that Bret Hart was making his first return to the WWE since the screwjob. I had every intention of watching TNA, but while Hogan cut a promo that was utterly forgettable, Bret Hart aired all his dirty laundry, talked about what he had been up to since leaving wrestling and why he would finally decide to come back. Bret Hart's story was immediately more interesting, and the whole show revolved around Bret Hart vs Vince McMahon as well as Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels each going a different direction. WWE drew me back in because it's story for that show was far better. And it wasn't a matter of me liking Bret Hart more than Hulk Hogan, because they're about the same in my eyes as far as what they've done for me.

RoH, most importantly has separated itself from the standard wrestling fair by taking wrestling seriously and treating it like a sporting event, and not an entertainment company. I don't think it can survive forever doing that. They're going to need to evolve into the entertainment company, but do it in such a way that the wrestling isn't compromised. RoH needs to fun and funny, and that's what they lack right now, despite having Mr. Funny IS Money Colt Cabana on commentary. 


Edited by Rico Len - 29/July/2017 at 17:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2017 at 14:23
I've always seen ROH as more of a ECW rather than a direct competitor to WWE. They know their place in the business and accept that their top guys will always flock to the big leagues eventually but they do have a small cult following due to their product being a bit different to mainstream wrestling. But realistically I don't think they have the resources to bring in the big names we're talking about, in the past if top names have worked for ROH it's normally been on a very short-term basis or part of a agreement with one of the Japanese promotions.

GFW on the other hand while still getting their finances in order seem like they do have cash available to offer some decent contracts to top talent. Their biggest problem is getting rid of the TNA stigma that they've had attached to them for so long that stops most people in the business from taking them seriously.

I personally think the best thing to happen would be a ROH/GFW/Lucha Underground merger or working relationship. Alone I don't think any one of those three groups can pose a threat to WWE.

Edited by Fletch - 30/July/2017 at 14:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2017 at 15:30
I agree with the merger comment. I think if they were to merge that would basically put them into a place that WWE was prior to their launch of the WWE network. Big, REAL big, but not the global giant WWE is now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2017 at 19:37
I honestly think you're both overselling the size and scale of those three feds and underestimating WWE at the same time.

ROH have been around for 15 years and only have a midnight slot on some minor TV station to show for it. They are still a small time indy fed in stature, even though financially they could in theory go blow for blow with the WWE.

Lucha Underground has a distinctly different vibe to it and has a certain unique charm that few wrestling shows have. But it isn't a touring company or even a wrestling promotion - it's just a TV show and could be cancelled any time.

If ROH and GFW had any sort of merger it wouldn't be much bigger than either company is on its own. Neither roster is strong enough to carry an invasion angle either.

You've more chance of WWE buying up all three's tape libraries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2017 at 23:37
The issue is that while WWE as a company is doing exceedingly well, the product they're selling is utter trash and everyone knows it.

People are looking for something else, but nothing is big enough to matter. That's a vacuum in the market just waiting to be filled. If there was company big enough to get a good TV spot comparable to Monday Night's during prime time on basic cable (kind of like TNA got to be at it's best) AS WELL AS having a few big name guys that would bring in new viewers like Daniel Bryan, AND was also giving us a good product that people really enjoyed and were buzzing over, THEN yes, they could start competing. TNA's problem is that as soon as they got the names and the TV spot, their creative went to shit and so never grew.

The problem is having those qualities all at the same time are not easy to come by despite the fact that it's completely doable. 

Even if a company had all of that it doesn't mean that it's in direct competition with the WWE. It wouldn't be, even if it were to pull in better ratings on Wednesdays and Thursdays than WWE was pulling in on Mondays and Tuesdays. WWE is just TOO big to take down anytime soon. If GFW/ROH were to pull off this feat for roughly 5 years straight, then and only then would it be merely possible that they've grown to such a point that they could maybe take over the top spot from the WWE. WWE is just too well streamlined as a company in every single other facet other than their creative television.

Daniel Bryan would be a key signing for a GOOD company that's firing on all cylinders to use as a catalyst to the next level, but the next level for either GFW or ROH would be to reach the level of WWE circa 2002-2012, and fill the void the WWE left when they moved up to an even larger more dominant company in 2013. 

Each one of these goals is unlikely to happen anytime soon, let alone the same company doing them one after another in a relatively short time of say 5-10 years without misfiring and screwing itself up and setting itself back several years. 

But yes, it's definitely possible. Wrestling promoters that don't think so should just quit now, because they have no business entering the market with a goal of only being 2nd best. They need a plan of growth to become a dominant second best in the short term with a long term goal of closing the gap between them and the WWE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote admin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/October/2017 at 22:42
So apparently he's got just 11 months on his contract before he can join the rest of the guys in making more money away from E........
 
Quote Ring of Honor COO Joe Koff recently spoke with AC Club about various topics. Here are the highlights:

On Daniel Bryan possibly returning to ROH:

“I’m not gonna give you odds, I wouldn’t even know how to set those. Bryan’s under contract with the WWE, from what I understand, until September 2018. If he chooses not to renew that contract, and he is able to wrestle from a health standpoint, I would welcome him. It would be a triumphant return. I think we would be the right place for him, the right fan appreciation, the right respect from the industry plus management plus everybody. But there’s so many variables in that. Even though it’s not far away, a year in wrestling is a long period of time. But he is more than welcomed to come back and I would love to have him on our roster.”

He looks so uncomfortable on Total Divas. But when he's still on his main event contract even though he's not wrestling anymore, he's in no position to really refuse.
 
I hope he stays where he is. He gets looked after really well (as does his family, and most importantly his wife) so he will hopefully realise he's on to a good thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote #Heel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/October/2017 at 18:30
i thought he was told he couldnt wrestle again from a medical point of view?

If he is capable of wrestling - why go to ROH - why not main event wrestlemania ??


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