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Fletch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/November/2014 at 10:53
He never headlined Wrestlemania because he's not a high calibre talent that would draw the numbers that Rock, Lesnar, Cena and The Undertaker would, simple as that.
As I said his WWE career was a roaring success compared to most, he clearly thought of himself in the same league as greats like The Rock, Austin, The Undertaker and Hogan which is a absolute joke.
 
Also he may have never been in the final match on a Wrestlemania card but he wrestled in a WWE title match at Mania and also wrestled The Undertaker and was set to face Triple H at this years WM before he threw his hissy fit and stormed out, also with the fan backlash to Batista he would likely have got the spot that went to Daniel Bryan instead and would have defeated Tripper then gone on to headline Mania and win the WWE title finally achieving his dream, so the fact that never happened is because he threw his toys, stomped his feet and ran home like a little bitch. No one to blame but himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/November/2014 at 13:51
Jesus you two, did CM Punk fuck your wives or something?

"Naff tattoos" is a popular look as much as "roided up freak" and "bearded nerd", you may not have liked his look, but it set him apart and made him just as noticeable as being 7ft tall would have.

WWE did make him rich. He also made WWE a lot of money. It goes both ways. He was paid fairly for his services, there's no need to be "grateful" for that.

Originally posted by The Green Eyed Monster The Green Eyed Monster wrote:

he only ever had a five star match when in the ring with a five star talent
Like his three best matches, with famed master technician John Cena, a 90-year old Undertaker, and a part-time Brock Lesnar.

He didn't have a Chris Hero physique, Chris Hero was fat and gross, Punk wasn't exactly ripped but he was still clearly in good shape.

I have no idea what show you were watching when he was with the SES but he was the biggest thing on Smackdown at the time, and that was when Smackdown had wrestlers people actually cared about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/November/2014 at 15:32
I'm just going to point you back to the picture I posted...

He comes across as bitter? Does he? Funny how saying "I'm still bitter" will aid that.

You guys talk about how he complains about money alot, yet he went on his best friends podcast and told his story for free, and now his interview is generating more traffic than it can literally handle, which makes money for Colt, none for Punk.

He got the industry buzzing about wrestling when no one cared anymore. That isn't something to take lightly. He did that, not Vince, not Triple H, Punk.

I have never been a big fan of Punk's myself,  and certainly no mark, but I will give credit where credit is due. Punk made people interested in wrestling again because of HIM, not how he was produced, and not because of a character Vince created. He was CM Punk before wwe and his fans came with him and grew only because of air time.

Almost all of that holds true for Daniel Bryan as well. And their absence on Raw has made Raw very boring and wwe still hasn't figured out how to make it as interesting as it was when those two were prominent parts of the show.

Over rated as a mat technician? Hell yeah he is. Over rated on the mic? No, not really. It was just enough to earn him the spot he got and nothing more. His look set him apart, and while not impressive, it did what was needed.

His mind for the business is what made him a star, nothing else. He got shit on for it, and it pissed him off. The guy is frequently an asshole and he doesn't pretend he isn't. 

I respect that, I respect him, but I don't miss him, I only miss the fact that he did a whole lot to keep Raw interesting. I think during his entire career I only marked for him once, and today I can't even remember how. 

My assessment? He is an average guy who had an above average mind who was in the right place at the right time to say truthfully and from his heart all the things that the fans were also upset about in the world of pro-wrestling, and the crime is that he wasn't listened to by the boys backstage and got buried in politics until he snapped and walked out.

To me, that is CM Punk in a nutshell. In my mind that person in this story is a protagonist, not an antagonist. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/November/2014 at 18:07
Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

Jesus you two, did CM Punk fuck your wives or something?

"Naff tattoos" is a popular look as much as "roided up freak" and "bearded nerd", you may not have liked his look, but it set him apart and made him just as noticeable as being 7ft tall would have.

WWE did make him rich. He also made WWE a lot of money. It goes both ways. He was paid fairly for his services, there's no need to be "grateful" for that.

Originally posted by The Green Eyed Monster The Green Eyed Monster wrote:

he only ever had a five star match when in the ring with a five star talent
Like his three best matches, with famed master technician John Cena, a 90-year old Undertaker, and a part-time Brock Lesnar.

He didn't have a Chris Hero physique, Chris Hero was fat and gross, Punk wasn't exactly ripped but he was still clearly in good shape.

I have no idea what show you were watching when he was with the SES but he was the biggest thing on Smackdown at the time, and that was when Smackdown had wrestlers people actually cared about.
The Undertaker usually produces match of the night in his yearly outing at Wrestlemania which is where he faced Punk. I will admit Punk's match with John Cena at Money in the Bank was a cracker but Cena doesn't get enough credit for his in-ring work, on big occasions he nearly always produces a great match. Brock Lesnar is a phenomenal athlete who rarely has a bad match.
 
Not saying CM Punk was a bad in-ring worker, he wasn't, but he isn't great in the ring like he would have everyone believe and like many of his basement dwelling fans would as well, as I said he was overrated.
 
I'm old school in I like wrestlers to look like wrestlers, Punk looked like he belonged in a bargain basement tattoo parlour somewhere inking up crack addicts.


Edited by Fletch - 28/November/2014 at 18:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/November/2014 at 20:29
If 'best in the world' involves being a vanilla midget who stole KENTA's moveset and shouted sob story promos then I wonder how bad the worst in the world is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/November/2014 at 20:41
Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

Brock Lesnar is a phenomenal athlete who rarely has a bad match.
Except against the Undertaker. At Wrestlemania. Because the Undertaker is ancient and needs to be protected. Much like CM Punk did, while still pulling an amazing match out of him.

The Undertaker has great matches at Wrestlemania because HE'S the one facing five star athletes. Who's he had great matches with the last few years? Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Edge, CM Punk. That's how good CM Punk is. He didn't have the match of the night with Mark Henry.

At no point was Punk ever the best in the world, or close to it, but he was very good, and had many good matches with many different kinds of wrestlers, not all of whom are known for pulling out classics.

As for his look, you don't have to like it, that's perfectly fair, but you seem to be suggesting he should be grateful that WWE took a punt on him despite his look, when that's not the case at all, because as I said it is a popular and marketable look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/November/2014 at 21:26
It isn't being old school when you say that you like wrestlers that look like wrestlers, when what you really mean is that you like wrestlers that look like the roided up testosterone monsters of the 80's.

Go back and look at actual wrestlers that built the industry. Take away the tats, give him about 20 lbs.  of fat and suddenly cm punk looks almost identical to Lou fucking Thesz, who was 6 ft 2 and 220 lbs billed; the exact same stats cm punk was billed at, but as we know muscle weighs more than fat.

Calling CM Punk the best in the world and meaning it is over-rating. Calling him a good technician (or average by today's standards whem almost everyone is good) a great talker (again by todays standards, good when compared to the best) He is easily at Flair and hbk's level of promo, and there is little debating his best, the pipebomb promo is up there with the GOAT. When he talks idealistically about the industry I find next to nothing I disagree with him on. None of that is over rating him. He is a very philosophically sound wrestler judged by old school standards, and that truly sets him apart from most everyone working today.

I would recommend listening to J.R.'s podcast with Bill Watts. That guy kinda blew my mind inasmuch as he picked apart John Cena perfectly. He basically said Cena is perfect in every way but one, and that is that he is the worst seller from a philosophical standpoint he had ever seen. It is the whole "I can't walk one minute, but now that I have to fire up and make a comeback, I'm perfectly fine" issue. Nearlly all of the wwe is like this too, and tna, roh, etc. This is how punk, bryan, ziggler and a very few other indy darling who have been wwe-ized get and keep their indy fans rather than fading away to nothing when they get their shot in the wwe. It's not the flippity shit, or the work-rate, it is the intelligence a fan with an educated eye can pick out when a wrestler does his job well when compared to the greatest from yesterday that gets and keeps them over.

I would much prefer to see a guy like Sheamus with a head like Punk's any day of the week than a guy like Bryan, but at the end of the day I want to see smart wrestling and Sheamus can't give me that and Bryan, in his pint sized hairy little body can, so he makes for better tv than someone who looks perfect for the job but just doesn't fucking get it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HBKDX97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2014 at 01:01
I think a lot of the criticism he's receiving is owed to a number of different factors, and one of those being his admitted propensity to be an asshole to people, and it has rubbed off on a lot of people. That being said the level of criticism levelled by some of us here seems a bit excessive and slightly unfair to me.

I listened to the entire podcast, and I listened as a neutral party without any preconceptions going in. And to Punk's credit, it genuinely seemed like he was doing his best to not allow bitterness drive the narrative. Even when criticizing certain people (namely John Cena) he gave credit where he thought credit was due. In fact I only remember him criticizing two people with out and out vitriol, Ryback and a doctor working with the company. Beyond that, I know nothing about the backstage workings of the WWE so I can only assume he's telling the truth unless proved otherwise. 

As for his WWE career, I enjoyed watching him perform. He is undeniably a very capable and accomplished talker. He is undeniably a talented wrestler as evidenced by the fact that he has logged several great matches with a wide variety of opponents in many different positions on the cards he worked on. It is undeniable that he is the only WWE employee in the past five years at least to top John Cena's merchandise sales, and his influence on the product as a whole is still very tangible to this day (as evidenced by the fact that he still receives chants and people still bring signs to support him). 

Whether you like the guy's look or not, whether you disagree with what he has to say now or not, and whether or not you are a fan of him or not, these things are incredibly hard to dispute.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LennyComa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2014 at 10:19
he has never been my favourite wrestler, but i have always liked his talent.
Y'know what?....It's really fucking hot here in Africa. Who knew?....Well me, I have been doing this for almost 5 years
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote admin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/December/2014 at 15:18
Quote From Jim Ross Website

I have not sat down and listened to the CM Punk conversation with Colt Cabana due to the Thanksgiving week activities. Some of my Twitter followers could not understand why I did not make time to listen to the interview. For years,  I put the wrestling business way a head of my own family more times that I want to admit. Those days are over. I'm still a fan of the business and always will be but it's time that I balance my life better so that 's why I did not carve out time away from family and friends to listen to Punk's interview. 

I have been involved in MANY issues with talents ranging from high profile matters such as Steve Austin/WWE, among many others. The issue is this....when communications break down and athletes feel their bodies changing and not for the better plus they feel under appreciated and under paid, it necessitates that a process be put in play to address every facet of the talent's issues. Obviously, WWE and Punk had lack of communication issues that apparently went on far too long and the issues addressed by Punk in his interview, based on what I've read online, festered and went unsolved.

Often times it is better for the talent to be given a leave of absence to allow feelings to become less emotional and bodies to heal. However, as always evaluating an issue of this magnitude in hindsight is generally 20/20. I don't know how all the internal conversations went between Punk and WWE. We've heard only one side of the story thus far. In general terms my philosophy was that I either solved the problem or eliminated it. Perhaps that methodology is out of date these days but at some point if every thing has been done to rectify a grievance and it's still a negative situation it becomes obvious that the two parties need to part ways. Was every thing done to address Punk's issues? I have no idea but if his issues had been simmering for a long period of time then they may have been unsolvable. That I don't know.

Its also very important for any company to pay  close attention to all talents and it's also a fact that all talents can't be treated the same because all people are different. The wrestling business breeds paranoia and a variety of insecurities much like Hollywood actors and many athletes because the nature of their genres generally have shorter shelf lives as it relates to one's career. In other words, managing a talent roster in any pro wrestling company is and always has been a 24/7 proposition.  I can ell you that it was the most emotionally draining, exhausting and stressful job that I ever had. It affected my health but I was blessed that it did not adversely affect my marriage. I'm a lucky man in that department.

I am truly sorry that this matter ever got to the point that it did. I was and still am a fan of CM Punk and enjoyed being around him whether he was Punk the wrestler or Phil Brooks the man. I also owe WWE a great deal as they allowed me to contribute to their company and helped provide for my family for 21 years. For me, this whole matter is a no win situation for everyone involved.  

For those wondering how I feel about WWE and how they manage their talent roster today, I can't answer that question because I'm not around them and rarely talk to any one from the company which isn't a complaint but merely a statement of fact and that includes management and talents. I do know that WWE is serious about the medical status of their talent but I do feel that road schedules need to be constantly re-evaluated as it relates on how many days any one works on the road no matter their role. Some folks have different levels of tolerance as it relates to being on the road and how they deal with their injuries. Again, everyone is DIFFERENT and that's why everyone on the roster can't be dealt with the same. Rules. yes but communication, no.

At the end of the day it would seem to be, as an outsider simply observing and having talked to no one involved in this matter that the entire issue is an example of basic, poor communications.

I think that it is a brilliant idea to do the Austin-McMahon one on one interview on Monday night December 1 as it might be the highlight of the entire month of programming on the WWE Network including the TLC PPV. Mr. McMahon and the Rattlesnake had magical chemistry and a competitive rivalry that went well beyond the bell to bell action. Steve's proud of his podcast that can be found with my Ross Report on Podcast One and I don't think he would leave his Texas ranch to fly to Tulsa, Oklahoma to lob softballs to the Chairman of WWE. I fully expect Steve to address the Punk situation with McMahon. Vince rarely dodges any major issue in this sort of forum and Austin has become a great interviewer so I have extremely high expectations for this piece of business. I know that I will be watching and that's after sitting through another three hour RAW.


Both sides made good money from eachother, but it won't be the last time a breakdown in a relationship happens within WWE.

Eventually Punk will get bored, his body will heel and his bank ballance will dwindled from living the same lifestyle but without as much income coming in, thus he will definately end up back there one day in one role or another.

I'm not saying he will wrestle ever again for E but he will end up in the HOF and have a dvd released. Some fans stupidly think it's all a work and that Punk and Mcmahons get on perfectly well.

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