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Brock Lesnar On Raw

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Baz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/January/2018 at 21:02
Yeah Lesnar swore after that mishap. He obviously thought it was done on purpose to land that clean right hand...I do wonder if either man will have had words from Vince backstage after it as that was a clean right and it put Strowman on his arse.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Len Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/January/2018 at 21:17
It's pretty common for a guy to get overzealous in a match and give someone a potato, and then the other guy will give him receipt to say "Hey, I felt that last one." Usually that is enough to get things to calm down. It is a fairly well understood habit, at least to hear guys like Austin and Jericho talk about it.

I think that was probably all there was to it. Had it escalated to much more Kane probably would have cut them off and started calling shots on the fly. Had that failed and they ignored him they both would likely go back and get chewed the fuck out by all the producers and then fined or worse by Vince the day after.

Batista tells a good story of how he damned near got fired for taking things too far in one of his.matches and it happened in a manner similar to what I described. Likelihood is it is a fairly common practice.

However you could kind of see Braun getting the message and taking the not so subtle hint to relax a little or Brock will continue stiffing him, so Id say no harm no foul.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kondor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/January/2018 at 10:48
Originally posted by Tom Colohue Tom Colohue wrote:

There's a reason that when you talk about that invincible aura you bring up examples from over 20 years ago. The average consumer doesn't want an unstoppable machine any more. John Cena was an unstoppable machine. Roman Reigns was an unstoppable machine. People don't want it any more.

To this I say three, maybe four points. 

One, assuming your point is true that most fans don't want an unstoppable machine anymore, that is because they have become conditioned so over the past 25 years due to inconsistent and haphazard booking. I say inconsistent because of the fact that we have seen so many guys come in over the years in the WWF/E, make a big splash, and then get toppled, destroying their aura even going back to a time when it was normal for a wrestler to have that aura and the fans accepted it. Sid Justice/Sycho Sid first came in and looked super tough before he was jobbed out, Yokozuna came in and squashed everybody until he was jobbed out, Diesel came in and had a tremendous run before he was jobbed out, Vader pulverized everyone when he first came in until he was jobbed out, ditto with early Kane, ditto with Big Show even within his first year. 

I say haphazard because all of the above mentioned names could have looked more powerful for much longer periods of time while maintaining fan attention; but that was not done. this is why I say the WWF goes for the quick fix, throwing two wrestlers together for the instant payday but with one inevitably looking worse in the end as opposed to protecting the image of these powerful guys who looked so tough one minute. With each case over the years it became harder to hold the fans' interest in a guy because of the fans getting used to that quick fix, because they became so conditioned. 

This is part of my original criticism. My point was that were some of these guys protected more (as Undertaker was) they could have seemed invincible longer and would eventually be capable of generating a greater interest down the road than the quick fix provided (as Undertaker did.) If Vader would not have immediately been toppled by Shawn Michaels in 1996 and not obliterated by Kane in 1998 then he may have been a massive interest and draw in the WWF for years to come. Likewise if Kane would have been protected in the same way Undertaker was since he came in in 1997 and pulverized everyone instead of being in stupid storylines with Katie Vick ,then later matches with him could have been as big as an Undertaker match today, even with him taking an initial loss to Taker. 

And when you have two guys who seem super tough in that manner, they could have been kept apart and not immediately pitted against one another in that quick payday. Thus the fans would never have been so conditioned with short attention spans to appreciate it more when a guy does have that aura of invincibility. It could have worked, if not with them than with someone else. 

And then we would have more Hulk Hogans vs Andre The Giants in recent times that would be remembered for ages afterwards and that would have been better for wrestling in the long run.  

And then years later when Braun Stowman comes in the fans won't expect him to look super tough one minute and then weak another as they would not have seen the pattern occur for the past 25 years prior. And likewise the need for that obstacle you mentioned is lessened.   

My second point is that, in response to your point that fans don't want John Cena or Roman Reigns to be unstoppable machines, I would counter by saying that that fan rejection is due to the individual people involved a lot more so than the mere fact that there are unstoppable machines. There are a lot of reasons why fans don't like John Cena, from his corny rapping (even in his ruthless aggression phase) to his horrid looking attempts at submissions to his complete lack of ring physiology. There are many who just don't like his character. Roman Reigns of course was extremely popular initially as part of the Shield but when he broke out on his own fans saw he was in part bland in the ring, and his promos didn't help any. I personally have no problem with Roman Reigns. But I would argue the fans who have a problem with John Cena being booked as an unstoppable monster are the same fans who have a problem with John Cena doing anything. The fans that have a problem with Roman Reigns winning big matches are the same people who have a problem with Roman Reigns doing anything. It has little to do with how tough they appear.    

My third point is that, because of the fact that The Undertaker was so protected stemming back from the era where according to you it was acceptable to the fans for a wrestler to look unbeatable (he debuted in the Hulk Hogan era and only a few months after the retirement of Andre The Giant), he was able to gain that iconic aura and maintain it to the present day even in in era where according to you it is not acceptable. For most of the past decade plus of an era where allegedly invincibility is rejected, Undertaker matches have been greatly looked forward to and remained highlights of pay per views. This is evidence that such an aura can be bought into, at least by most, even today. In fact a large backlash against Reigns (and to a lesser degree Brock) was that he beat The Undertaker. 

Even Ryback was over as recently as 2012 just by squashing complete jobbers with no need for a major obstacle as you claim. Of course he would need to move on to bigger competition, but there was no reason why he couldn't have kept that aura for a few more years.  

And because of all this I maintain that if Brock was never meant to appear super invincible for an extended period of time, he should never have ended the Undertaker's streak. But he did, so he bears that flag.  

My fourth, lesser point, is that the only thing you are really doing is reciting "what people want" instead of stating what YOU would like to see as a fan or even what you think would be good booking. You're simply regurgitating what the accepted methods of booking are today as opposed to challenging those premises and thinking of better alternatives. 

I readily admit that my entire post comparing the booking of Brock to the past booking of Hulk Hogan and Andre was based on "it was better done in the olden days," but I can present an argument as to why.    

Originally posted by Tom Colohue Tom Colohue wrote:

I love watching people tie themselves in knots when I ask the question: "What happens for Braun after he beats Brock?"

Well for the aforementioned reasons I don't want Braun to beat Brock. But if that was written in stone then what I would want "next" would be do what they did with the Brock vs Goldberg feud and have Brock come back to beat him and paint Braun's victory as a fluke. Otherwise, if Braun has to be "the guy", than what I want is for him to beat every challenger to come for as long as he's around.  

You're saying that there should not be "a guy" to hold the torch of invincibility but I would say that that would be a lot better than a meaningless turnstile. 


All this to say, and to get to the topic, I maintain my stance that Brock Lesnar has been made to look too weak on the recent Raws with this feud with Braun Strowman. The Rumble match reinforced that opinion.   



Edited by Kondor - 31/January/2018 at 11:50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote #Heel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/February/2018 at 10:08
MMA Thread just posted this on Facebook :


🚨🚨🚨Breaking News🚨🚨🚨

According to a few sources, Brock Lesnar will not re-sign with WWE after his contract expires after Wrestlemania 34. His current plan is to make his return to the UFC. He is currently on a one year ban and is eligable to enter the USADA pool again July 15th of this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/February/2018 at 15:12
Surprise surprise we've been here before, its probably just Lesnar using these rumours as leverage for a better deal with WWE.

Apparently there is a option to extend his current deal to Summerslam anyway, not sure what the terms of that arrangement are.

I'm sure WWE will accommodate Brock for one more UFC fight, its good publicity for them having a top talent fight in UFC. I don't see Lesnar heading back to UFC full-time.

Still seeing plenty of rumours about a Lesnar vs Lashley feud in WWE later this year, imagine if they could work out a deal with UFC to cross-promote this feud and have the pair square off in both wrestling and MMA fights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xXDemon_DuckXx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/February/2018 at 19:35
Oh boy, it's 2015 all over again.

Reports come in saying Brock isn't resigning, going to go back to UFC, yadda yadda.

Of course he's going to extend once his contract is up. With the schedule he's working, why wouldn't he? Why give up working a few dates for a shit ton of money while only having to phone it in and pretty much be guarenteed a championship reign. Compare that to having to constantly train, give a damn about a fight and have the possibility of losing. Hell, he'll resign and maybe, just to mix things up, WWE will have him on Smackdown and hold THAT title hostage for a year.

Some people will speculate and wonder, everyone else is just rolling their eyes at how absurd it is that we have to go through this shit again.


Edited by xXDemon_DuckXx - 12/February/2018 at 19:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Colohue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/February/2018 at 19:36
A lot of good stuff to sink my teeth into their Kondor, in agreement, in disagreement and in general observation. I feel disappointed in myself that I can't come up with much of a response. I agree with most of it. What I disagree with you are already aware of. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dukezilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/February/2018 at 02:07
I 100% believe Brock will be around until SummerSlam, where they bring in Bobby Lashley to face him.

I also can see Brock being moved to SmackDown in exchange for AJ Styles in this year's Shake Up. That would be the perfect place for the Brock/Lashley feud. Meanwhile, Raw can have Reigns and Strowman holding the fort down.


Edited by Dukezilla - 13/February/2018 at 02:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kondor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/February/2018 at 05:15
Originally posted by Tom Colohue Tom Colohue wrote:

A lot of good stuff to sink my teeth into their Kondor, in agreement, in disagreement and in general observation. I feel disappointed in myself that I can't come up with much of a response. I agree with most of it. What I disagree with you are already aware of. 

Aye, just saying how I see things. 

As for Brock; I surely hope he remains in WWE. To me he is one of the guys I most look forward to seeing at a pay per view or even a Raw appearance. When he is there, it seems more special as is not always around. Brock Lesnar is proof of the "less is more" theory. 

I would pick a lot of other opponents for a dream feud for him besides Lashley though. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xXDemon_DuckXx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/February/2018 at 14:57
Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

As for Brock; I surely hope he remains in WWE. To me he is one of the guys I most look forward to seeing at a pay per view or even a Raw appearance. When he is there, it seems more special as is not always around. Brock Lesnar is proof of the "less is more" theory. 

I would pick a lot of other opponents for a dream feud for him besides Lashley though. 


I just can't share the same sentiment. Yeah, his appearances may be a big deal but when it comes time for him to compete, its like he just phones it in.

Dream feuds don't really mean anything when the in-ring work is lackluster. A lot of people thought WWE had a sure thing with a Lesnar/Ambrose feud with the way the match was built up, but come Wrestlemania, the match fell flat on its face.

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