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Raven View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 11:47
But if every potential ending to the match would be awful, and the match itself probably wouldn't be any good either, why would I have any interest in seeing it? The only reason Bryan is champion is ring skills, and they put him against The Big Show, that's a stupid idea in the first place. Big Show is decent on the mic, but not enough to carry Bryan, and Bryan is good in-ring, but there's no way he can pull a good match out of Show.

If Bryan is heel, I'll wait and see, but if he is a face, there is no possible way this match could be any good in any way, surely you see this? I mean, you still haven't explained a way in which this would not be terrible, you've just told me I'm to negative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CBW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 12:01
Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

But if every potential ending to the match would be awful, and the match itself probably wouldn't be any good either, why would I have any interest in seeing it? The only reason Bryan is champion is ring skills, and they put him against The Big Show, that's a stupid idea in the first place. Big Show is decent on the mic, but not enough to carry Bryan, and Bryan is good in-ring, but there's no way he can pull a good match out of Show.

If Bryan is heel, I'll wait and see, but if he is a face, there is no possible way this match could be any good in any way, surely you see this? I mean, you still haven't explained a way in which this would not be terrible, you've just told me I'm to negative.

Because your way of loking at the situation tends to 'wash over' all the little intricacies of the match with an 'oh it's going to be awful' attitude. I wonder what happened to watching matches for the little touches. I took great delight in watching the Bryan/Henry cage match because Bryan looked fantastic. He played his role to a T. I'm not utterly convinced by his role in the company (a sentiment JTB etc. seem to echo), but I don't find myself altogether concerned with HOW he's going to win or lose, at least not this far in advance. I just look forward to the narrative of a match. The Big Show match is, for me, no different in this regard.

In your precognitive analysis of the match, you are way, WAY too negative. It's in plain sight:

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

But if every potential ending to the match would be awful,

Key word here is -- 'Probably'. You haven't seen it yet.

Quote and the match itself probably wouldn't be any good either,

Key word here is -- 'Probably'. You haven't seen it yet.

Quote why would I have any interest in seeing it?

To maybe give it a chance?

Quote The only reason Bryan is champion is ring skills,

Then let him maybe surprise you with his ring skills?

Quote and they put him against The Big Show, that's a stupid idea in the first place.

Yeah -- because David vs. Goliath never works in professional wrestling.

Quote Big Show is decent on the mic, but not enough to carry Bryan, and Bryan is good in-ring, but there's no way he can pull a good match out of Show.

Absolute utter speculation. The match is a month away. You are clearly being negative, and this is clearly the paramount downfall of the IWC. Whatever happened to being pleasantly surprised, and evaluating a match/show based on its merits. It absolutely BAFFLES me how you can be this negative, and absolutely lambaste every nuance of a match A MONTH BEFORE IT HAPPENS. Absolutely mind-blowing.

Quote I mean, you still haven't explained a way in which this would not be terrible, you've just told me I'm to negative.

WHY DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY IT WON'T BE TERRIBLE? I'm not sitting here coming up with reasons why it will or will not suck. That's definitely what you seem to be doing. Personally, I think it's impossible to examine a match before it's occured. 


Edited by CBW - 22/December/2011 at 12:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 12:11
Big Show is not a nuanced athlete. There are only a set number of narratives that could possibly happen within the match, and they WILL all end terribly. And ending WILL be terrible. Fact. There is no way that either man can come out of this looking better than before, and there is NO WAY a singles match between the two will be good on any level. Mark Henry is far more talented than The Big Show, there's no comparison.

There are no merits to a potential program between the two of them. At all. As I have already explained.

David vs. Goliath works for people like Rey Mysterio, who run around the ring until the other guy is gassed. Cunning and guile don't quite work the same way. And even then, David vs. Goliath is a 100-200 pound weight difference, not a 300-something pound weight difference. I can suspend disbelief, but not that much.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but as far as I'm aware I haven't universally panned anything like this at least since you've been here, almost certainly longer, but there are no positives to this that I can see, and I've tried to look at it from every angle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CBW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 12:20
Nothing is fact until the match plays out. Anything could happen, and shitting all over this booking IS the kind of thing which gives the IWC a bad name. I think The Big Show is better than you give him credit for. I also think Bryan plays the underdog-in-peril role extremely well. Based on that, I'm predicting good things. I'm not saying it will be good. Since it's a while away, I'm going to wait and see. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 12:22
I'll be back in this thread in a month to say I told you so Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CBW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 15:38
Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

I'll be back in this thread in a month to say I told you so Tongue

The thing is, I'm totally opening to being wrong here. My issues is, like, 10% regarding the quality of the match, ad 90% that you seem to have labeled it a lost cause a month in advance. Nobody takes the IWC seriously because 'they've got everything figured out', and this is as huge a glaring example of that school of thought as I have ever seen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihatethatmonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 18:55
This, right here, is your problem in other threads:

Originally posted by CBW CBW wrote:

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

I mean, you still haven't explained a way in which this would not be terrible, you've just told me I'm to negative.

WHY DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY IT WON'T BE TERRIBLE? I'm not sitting here coming up with reasons why it will or will not suck. That's definitely what you seem to be doing. Personally, I think it's impossible to examine a match before it's occured. 


this, and your general sweeping statement about IWC - as in any negative comments made on an internet forum makes you a part of the IWC - without any real explanation, but expecting explanation for the opinions of others is why, most times i read any posts of yours i'm already rolling my eyes.

let's be clear on WHY the timing was wrong. Bryan has been booked poorly. yes, he's had a couple of great matches with Henry, but he still lost, and hasn't won much since getting the briefcase. he's not been pushed, the angles for any matches he does appear in are usually very poor - Bret/HBK match with Kidd(?) being my prime example - and feuds that could look interesting - Sin Cara turning on him - are then forgotten and hot shotted.

As a face, he shouldn't have cashed in while the champ was down without any build. one tease that he MIGHT cash it in before Mania is not enough build, as is not having a decent winning streak, or even percentage.  if he were heel, instant heat. as a face, it's just confusing to the fans. i know when i read it, i was just scratching my head thinking "what the fuck?"

thing is, even if Henry weren't injured, the feud would have to be with Show anyway, as they're already given away 2 Henry/Bryan matches on free TV. As Henry now seems to be being pushed back down the card, it's not like he can even re-enter the picture at a later date and just remain a pissed off huge muthafucker in the mean time, which again limits the list of opponants for Bryan

will Smackdown survive a Bryan/Show title match? of course, it survived Swagger's poorly booked run, but you're also asking why would anyone want to see this match just to see it? Raven's views are his own, but those views mean that he would be one person not buying the PPV that the match is on.  if other people feel the same, they will also not buy the PPV, because it's not the idea of what could actually happen in the matches that has people booking them, it's their expectations of the talent on the card.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pac-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/December/2011 at 20:35
Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

One, Bryan cheats to win. Stupid booking for a clean-cut face, as Bryan is. Even more stupid booking if he suddenly develops an edge now he's World Champion, considering he never had it in his title chase.

Except he DID develop that edge by using Money in the Bank the way he did in the first place. Which I believe Mark Henry and Big Show pushed him to by Henry trying to put him in the Hall of Pain every week and Big Show actually PRODDING HIM TO DO IT. This is not unbelievable, this is two men being hoist by their own petard.

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

Two, Bryan wins clean. I shouldn't have to explain why this is terrible.

Christian has pinned Mark Henry clean in the pa--oh wait, that was terrible too. I really need to remember the Aaron Alliance playbook more often. How do you know Bryan won't come out with another submission Big Show hasn't seen him use before that he can actually beat Big Show with? His whole gimmick is basically "crouching everyman, hidden submission specialist".

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

Three, Bryan wins due to interference. If interference isn't seen coming a mile off (like with The Rock at Mania) it ruins PPV main events. The only interference I could see coming a mile off is Mark Henry, and prolonging the Show/Henry feud would be painful.

You just said it yourself. MARK HENRY.

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

Four, Big Show cheats to win. Big Show shouldn't have to cheat to beat Daniel effing Bryan, considering the shitty mid-card heels who can do it regularly clean.

Can we rule this out? I can't remember the last time Big Show needed to cheat to win, even in his last run as a heel where he was aligned with Edge and Vickie, Jericho, and Miz.

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

Five, Big Show beats Bryan clean. Bad idea, basically makes Daniel Bryan's title run (and by extension, Smackdown's MitB) a waste of time.

Yeah, I don't want to see this either. It's the easiest thing you'd think would happen, but it's been said before that no good thing is ever easy.

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

Six, Big Show wins through interference. Again, if it's not coming a mile off, it ruins main events, and there's nobody who would obviously go after Daniel Bryan.

You said this one on number three. MARK HENRY. He lost the world championship at TLC just as Big Show did. He wants that title back ASAP just as Big Show does.

Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:

DQs, count-outs and no contests are awful finishes to any title match unless it's a real blood feud, which this isn't.

You know what is a blood feud? MARK HENRY. Let him cause that DQ/no contest and end up getting a title shot of his own, most likely in a three-way. And that's assuming the Royal Rumble title match isn't a three-way itself. And in a three-way, it's EASY to have Bryan retain believably. Have one of Big Show or Henry get the other with a finisher. Bryan gets on the turnbuckle out of nowhere and comes off with a big missile dropkick out of nowhere to knock the one out of the ring, then gets the other with a pin or submission. He wins the match, Booker and Lawler can go on about the resourcefulness and courage of "ma boi D-Bryan". There you go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John The Baptist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/December/2011 at 00:59
Originally posted by Raven Raven wrote:


If Bryan is heel, I'll wait and see, but if he is a face, there is no possible way this match could be any good in any way, surely you see this?




I dont get what you are saying here, because whether he is a heel or face, hes still the same wrestler in style.

I agree that Danielson winning would be ridiculous and Mark Henry would have to carry him to a decnt match, but he isnt automatically better as a heel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/December/2011 at 02:04
No, but as a heel, he can take the pussies way out and it won't look absolutely stupid.
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